Becoming Ourselves - The Podcast

The Enneagram Type 9 with Katherine Costa

March 16, 2022
Becoming Ourselves - The Podcast
The Enneagram Type 9 with Katherine Costa
Show Notes Transcript

In today's episode we talk with Katherine Costa about how she experiences her "nineness" and how the enneagram has allowed her to remember to who she always knew she was. We chat about typical nine tendencies, we explore what anger looks like to a peacemaker, Katherine shares about what it feels like for a 9 in stress to move toward the catastrophic thinking of 6, and we discuss finding wholeness through accessing your centers of intelligence and practicing intentionality.

MEET KATHERINE:

Katherine Costa is an educator and reading specialist who was introduced to the Enneagram at age 17 by a wise therapist. In 2019 she attended her first training in the Narrative Enneagram tradition, where she geeked out on subtypes and somatic awareness, and hasn’t stopped talking about it since. Katherine credits the Enneagram with giving her language for the things she always knew about herself but couldn't articulate, as well as for helping her work with patterns around right action, intuition, and body-based wisdom. She lives and works in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

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Juli Wenger:

We're on this earth for a purpose. You want to live a life that matters. So let's get through the fear and the overwhelm and all the crap that gets in the way of you living the life of fear for this is the becoming ourselves podcast where we are fired up about you getting clear on who you are, what you're called to, and how to get there. Because the world is waiting for you to show up and own your power. I'm your host, Juli Wenger, a coach, a speaker, a Jesus lover in Enneagram, two, and a tree shaker, let's dive into what's keeping you stuck. Because on the other side, is a life that's fired up the film. Alright, today on becoming ourselves the podcast, we are rounding out our Enneagram series. And I always find this kind of like awful and amusing at the same time how nine ends up being last. When I actually learned the Enneagram, it wasn't it wasn't that way. Because I read it, write about the Enneagram in a book that started actually with type eight, and then worked through to seven. And the joke in that book was we're keeping sevens to last. So they'll stick around because they get distracted and have other things that they think are better to do. But this time since we've been working through, like, numerically, here we are a type nine. So welcome, Catherine caster to the podcast for our type. Nice. I'm

Unknown:

so excited to be here. Thank you, Julie.

Juli Wenger:

So let's go here. First, tell us a little bit about you owe.

Unknown:

Hard Place for nice to start. Really you want to know about me? Well, I am a teacher, I guess first and foremost, that's what I do for my day job. But I believe, you know, I teach elementary school students, but I'm kind of a teacher, I guess at heart. And that's what's inspired me about the Enneagram is, you know, getting to learn about type structure. And I kind of can't help but teach everyone around me because I just get so jazzed about it. And I'm somebody who, I guess is on a journey to discover you know more about myself and others and how we're similar and different. And I think the Enneagram has been a really helpful tool for me just in that personal growth journey. And in developing deeper perspectives in relationships of all kinds in my life.

Juli Wenger:

Can you tell us a little bit about the type nine structure specifically, what's kind of common to type nines? And if you were to do like, say Enneagram? One on one, here's the here's the key things that you need to know and understand what would you tell, so

Unknown:

nines are at the top of the Enneagram symbol. And, you know, in some traditions, people describe them as sort of all encompassing, or having qualities of a lot of different types. I think for some people on their nine discovery journey, it can be hard to identify as a nine because you might see yourself in a lot of different types. Nines at their core are sometimes nicknamed the peace makers. And nines are, you know, kind of always striving for a sense of peace and harmony, and comfort. And a lot of the times that motivation comes from this message that we get unconsciously that I am okay, as long as everyone around me is okay. And there is a lot of pursuit of that sort of like calm energy, I don't want things to be, I don't want there to be conflict, I don't like discomfort, I really, you know, thrive in a peaceful environment, I like to experience inner harmony and peace. So things that might be disrupting me internally can get kind of sticky, because I maybe I don't want to look at that that's, you know, that might disrupt my peace. And nines, you know, are really known for that, that at least outward persona of like calm and supportive and non judgmental. I think what sometimes is funny to me about being a nine is the way that we are perceived. And the way we feel internally can sometimes be different, you know, especially in that, that appearance of outward calm all the time, very harmonious type of person to get along with sometimes, you know, internally we could be experienced, experiencing a lot of anxiety or anger, which is something that I think we'll talk more about in this type structure, but nines are right in the center of that body triad of eights, nines and ones and we, you know, relate to anger in a very particular way that I think a lot of people wouldn't perceive us as angry people. We don't perceive ourselves as angry people all the time. But you know, it's there. It's like all the emotions and all the types you know, we experience everything And our type structure, you know, is set up to be like, No, I'm, I'm not going to fight you like I'm very, I'm very harmonious I'm going to get along, we can often forget ourselves in the pursuit of that peace or harmony. So sometimes it's so or often it's just so much easier to go along with what somebody else wants to do. And it's often unconscious in the sense that we don't know we're doing that or putting our opinion or needs aside, we're just, you know, that seems like the best way forward. Because if we're getting along, and there's a lack of, you know, difference of opinion between us, then like, that's going to be the best situation, we're going to be at peace and things will be, you know, things will roll up smoothly. So I think that type structure really does hinge on a lot of going along with other people's agendas, and forgetting our own, or forgetting to check in that we might have one.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah, there's so so many things and sitting here making notes as you're talking. And for anyone who's listening, here's what I'm very conscious of with type nine is I want to give Catherine time to talk and to share what she thinks before I jump in because of exactly what you're talking about of the Going along with that can be so default. In some of the literature, we call it merging, right? We merge with other people's opinions, and sometimes to the point of not even knowing like what your own opinion is. Or, you know, like you said that I even have one. So I just wanted to share an anecdote that's been one of my favorites and helping me understand nines. And then yes, I want to talk about anger, only goodness, do I the funny story. So we've had a few of these as we've gone, right? Like comparing fours and twos and how fours will sit with you and your negative emotions and twos will, like, bring you something to try to fix it. With nines. It's like where do you want to go for dinner? Right? I don't know, what do you want to do, right? Versus the, do you want Italian or sushi and then depict something. And it's our job to not undermine that. It's like, oh, well, maybe we should go for this one instead of what you picked, like, okay, that's fine. But like, what you actually wanted was the thing that you said in the first place. So just wanted to share that, but tell us about nines and anger.

Unknown:

Oh, that example, though, is so perfect. I feel like it, it's really hard one for a nine to share their opinion. And so if they told you they wanted to go for sushi, it's like, yeah, it really helps to listen to that, I think, because for me, that's where the anger can come up. You know, it's like, it's the subtle sense of, of dismissal. That's often you know, somebody else's opinion was like, our choosing something else for dinner wasn't actually trying to undermine my voice. But oh, I feel really, you know, unimportant and unheard here. And that just kind of gets stored away. And you're never going to know about it. Right. Like, I'm not gonna let you know that I'm upset with you. That takes a lot of work. I think, for me personally, you know, it took a lot of work to be able to voice that, that maybe I was hurt by that, or that, you know, you know what, it takes me a lot to pick something. And when I do it, it makes me feel heard when you know, when when you acknowledge that. And the anger, I think my mom described it best once. She's a seven. And she's observed me my whole life. And she, we were talking about anger. And she was like, Yeah, I would really describe your type of anger as a smoldering indignation. It's just under the surface. Yeah. And it's powerful. You know, like, she's like, you know, and I think it's only for the people that know me, well can can sense that. Because it is very, I guess, like, kept contained. And in a way that, for me, makes me relate to my one wing a lot. ones are often have this internalized anger, we use that term for ones for nines. I think I've heard it as diffuse. Like, it's like, we take the anger and it's almost it's where did it go? You know, it diffuses out. And it's like, it's there somehow, but we can't find it or hold on to or know that it's there sometimes. But for me, it will sort of build up in a way that I'm not perceiving for a while. And then all of a sudden, I'll be really irritated. And again, I wouldn't use the word angry. It's hard for me to get there like to identify anger in my body, but it's a irritation. It's smoldering. It's that you know, it's just sort of it's frustration, it's and it can build to I know for some nines, it can build to an explosive point and they identify this, this sort of sudden ness of an anger explosion. They didn't know it was coming, because there is so much time and energy spent in no I don't need to get angry about that. You know, my job is to keep the peace. And again, that's all unconscious. But it's just like, put that aside, that's not important, like my voice here isn't important, let's take care of the harmony in the room until it sometimes builds to a breaking point. And that can, I've heard a lot of nines describe their outburst is like quite scary to themselves, and you know, can be quite surprising to those around them. I think anger feels really dangerous to a nine. Because anger equals conflict, that's the place I'm at automatically go. You know, like, if I bring up the fact that I'm angry in this relationship, I'm going to be disconnected from this person that I care about. And one of nines course, core fears is loss and separation from other, you know, maybe a particular other in the sense of merging with another person in a relationship, but also a more spiritual, like, a oneness of separation from the hole. And it's almost like, we feel safer in merging with that whole. Be it a person, God, nature, whatever, you know, our perspective is, anger threatens that. For the type structure, you know, anger could cause that separation. So it's really hard to identify, I used to say, I'm just not an angry person used to just be baffled by people who yell at other people, why would you ever do that I just couldn't understand how people could experience that emotion and then bring it outward to other. But so much to the point that I didn't identify as angry when that took a long time for me in my journey to really see that there was anger under the surface for me. And it's still unfolding.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah. There's so so so many ways we could go with this. I'm really excited. We're having this conversation. Because there's, there's a few pieces, I'm going to just try and pull out here. And then you can chime in on them. The from an anger triad perspective, right? There's the outward facing that diffuse energy you're talking about with eights, and there's inward facing, which is like really strong inner critic, self judgment with the ones and nines. I've always thought of it like, Yeah, we don't we don't do anger, we just bury it, we just shove it, we're just gonna, like no, but then it leaks. And so as you're talking about, you know, it just builds and builds and builds, and then ended up irritable. As I've heard, it explained and heard other people's experience. And that's one of the beautiful things about this kind of opportunity, right of us having this conversation is people can actually hear from your perspective, not just like my type two perspective that I then filter your nine, life through, right, but it's this, it leaks out like days later. And it can be kind of passive aggressive, or can be kind of stubborn, except when there is either that explosion. And I think this is where we hear about nine's who have been like, happily married for 30 years that just like walk out of their marriages, because they've just like reached a boiling point snapped. And then also the, the just cause energy. So when there's something that because all gut types are very integrity driven, right, when there's something that really matters to you, that's getting stepped on or done wrong, or is oppressing someone or, you know, conflicts with that oneness. What happens then, in terms of how you show up in situations

Unknown:

for me in how nine shows up in that? It's like, I'm good to go along with your agenda. Yeah, like, that doesn't really matter to me until something really matters. And for me, that's very, that can be very social justice focused. Like for me, there is a clear, right and wrong, which I would, you know, could attribute to one. And there's a clear like, you do not take advantage of people. I could maybe relate to the eight and that, you know, it's like there's a line there for me and I would not bend on that. And the word with nine that I hear a lot of stubborn. I once heard this great image that I identify with, which is that nines are a steel pole wrapped in a pillow. Yeah. Yeah. It's like we look really soft and accommodating on the outside. Like, we wouldn't hurt a fly or bother anybody or disrupt anything. But there's that steel pole in the middle. And it feels like very, yeah, integrity, the word you used is resonant for me because there is like, Nope, you will not budge me on this. And I think it can be quite powerful and it's often subtle like until you know, it's really poked out. I think it's a subtle sense of stubbornness and not even in a nice Get away just in a, you know, a solid sense of self way that, for me has always been there, I've felt this very clear sense of who Katherine is from a very young age. That is sometimes hard to, to remember or identify in moments or times of stress in my life, like, but it's like that steel pole, it's like, no, I have values, I have opinions. I know what I want. And the pillow can can soften it sometimes I forget, forget myself, I'm putting that in air quotes. Because I think a lot of nine coping mechanisms are self forgetting sloths numbing out, you know, just like, I need to find the piece somewhere. And all of this stuff out here is crazy and overwhelming to my system. So I'm going to find the comforting routine, the food, whatever it is, that's gonna numb me out to it. Because that sometimes that anger and that like really strong sense of I, I do have an opinion about this. And I'm, I'm mad that the world is not listening can get really, that there's a lot of energy to that. And that's overwhelming. Sometimes.

Juli Wenger:

You said something earlier about feeling dismissed. And like your opinion isn't important. And this is something that I have so consistently seen show up across the board with nine, there's a narrative there. And it often starts early, starts young, where it's like, you feel maybe like you're not seen or you're not heard, or like there's just these bigger, bolder personalities that like just why bother, I'm just not going to rock the boat. And as you were just talking about that self protective patterning that shows up like the numbing out and just the conflict feeling too big. It had me think back to that. And is a really interesting tie in actually to this piece around. When did Catherine discover the Enneagram? Where were you in your life? And how did it show?

Unknown:

I think this is really cool, because I discovered the Enneagram when I was 17. And it was thanks to a really wise therapist I had I had been in therapy, you know, since I was a young child, my parents were divorced when I was nine. So I knew this therapist for a long time, she ended up being a nine as well, she didn't tell me that at the time, of course, she was very professional. But she handed me an Enneagram book one day, I because I had started going to her as a later teenager on my own, you know, just kind of trying to figure myself out at this later stage of high school and about to kind of go into the world and go into college. And she was like, I think you might really like this tool. She just handed me the bucks. She said, Read these descriptions of these nine types, see what two or three resonate, read more about those. And she just sort of handed me the tool and let me guide myself. And she was like, it's an intuitive process. And you'll know, when you've hit on what your type is, if you even want to know. And she was right. I mean, I soaked it up like a sponge, I read the the types, I think I pretty immediately knew I resonated with nine, which I know is not everyone's experience as a nine sometimes they see themselves like I said in lots of types. I also related heavily to one. But I sat with with that. And I sort of read more about it. And the rest was history, I just I was like this is the language I've been looking for. This is me this is this is what I've wanted to it's, it's like I had a sense of who I was, but I didn't know how to describe it. And that's not unique to nines. I think that's just part of the human experience. But when we can find a tool that that gives language, to our experience that we can then use in community with others who speak that language, it's really powerful. And I you know, I just it was sort of a solo journey for a long time. I mean, I talked with this therapist about it a little bit. But until I was in my mid to late 20s I just kind of read about myself, I read about nines a lot, but I didn't really explore the system as a whole. And then I picked it back up. You know, I'd always had the books around and I looked at it again and I started to share with friends and roommates and a few of them had heard of it. And we just started this journey of, of really diving in and then sharing our, our discoveries with each other and it deepened our relationships. And I was like this is a really powerful tool. Then I found the narrative Enneagram tradition and I started going to trainings in about 2018 or 2019. And that community is just amazing. And the the approach that they take For me, what was so resonant about the narrative is the three prongs that, you know, the spiritual aspects, the psychological basis, plus the somatic the getting into my body. Because again with the body types, that was so key to me, I've always resonated with having a gut feeling. And I didn't understand, I guess the body response to that, or what was really going on for me somatically until I did the narrative training, and that was just opened my eyes to a whole, whole different side of the Enneagram. And then of course, I learned nerded out over instincts and subtypes. Wings and resource points.

Juli Wenger:

Good. Yes, no. Yeah. The, the narrative, the structure in which they teach even right in just being in community and sharing experience and learning through the sharing of panels, right of these groups of people that are just wired differently from us, is so insightful. And I remember sitting in, in a couple of the sessions, and particularly say, with type five, because I just just like, don't get fights. I just, I'm a two. I'm a feeler, they're super cerebral. Sometimes, like, I just don't get it. But sitting and being able to listen to them and watch their energy. It's like, whoa, okay, now I have some context. Now I can have more compassion. Now I can have more understanding. Now I have a better sense of, how do I meet you where you're at? And so I think, I agree with you that I can't say enough about that. School about that. way of thinking about the Enneagram, and how they process it and bring it together and really being able to center into, like you're saying with the somatic piece? Like, what does that body intelligence mean? What does that feeling knowing for me? Have? How does it have legitimacy? Because I think, and I'm curious for your thoughts on this as a society, it's like, you need to logic and think your way through everything. And for those of us who are wired a little differently, it's like, yeah, but I just have a gut feeling, or I just have a feel feeling. And I just know, it's like, but why do you know, I don't know. I just know. There's intelligence there. And we could trust us. So yes, yeah,

Unknown:

that has been such a part of my journey. I mean, my friends will all, you know, joke that I mean, I'm the gut feeling person. Like, that's all, you know, I just talked about the importance of gut feelings. Because for me, I would have these early experiences of like, I don't know, I just know something. But I wasn't able to explain it. And I felt like, confused by that, you know, should I, if I can't explain it and explain it to myself, even in words, should I dismiss it, but there was always this sense of, no, I know, something is right, for me or wrong for me, in an energetic sense, not in a moralistic sense. And not even in a, it feels good or bad, it's, it's just sort of a knowing that, for me, has been a real internal compass, and learning to trust that and not need to justify it to the world, let alone to myself, I think that was the most challenging really was I need to justify this in my need to have an explanation for why. And whenever I couldn't, it caused anxiety, you know, like, that, I felt myself accessing some analysis points of the head type six, you know, just being like, well, I need that, the reasons and the, the explanation and the why and, and if I don't have it, you know, I don't feel safe or grounded, but learning to trust that body based wisdom, I think, for everyone, all types, you know, it's not unique tonight. And so I think we all have access to it. I think for me, I always noticed it as a big part of my it took up a lot of my screen, my whole life. And I didn't understand how to make sense of that. It's really big for me, and sometimes that can be a very big feeling, like a very overwhelming sense of what my body is telling me. And one of the biggest things in that, for me has been learning to take time and just letting things integrate because sometimes when I need to figure it out in the moment or I think I need to figure it out in the moment it's not productive. It's not I'm not going to get there until I've integrated head heart and body.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah, there's a too much in this there. Forgot types of how do we cope with the two muchness of life? Yeah, I hear that reflected in what you're saying. Yeah.

Unknown:

It's very physical. Sometimes it's a very physical body experience to a few Feeling to a thought, you know, to experience. And usually, you know, it all comes out in the wash for me if I just wait. And you know, and, and ground do some practices that help me remember that I am a head, heart and body, right like I, I am all these things, and that they really can be in harmony. When I listen. And when I remember myself, I think that's the big part.

Juli Wenger:

There's something so, so important there and I want to touch on it because gut tapes, in particular, and we've talked about this a little bit through this series, but there is a stillness that is so beneficial to coming back to yourself and really being able to, you know, to root and to find real intercom. And you know, with eights we talk about, they're just go, go, go, go go on all the time, it's finding stillness, so they can just be instead of doings they can tone down the energy. And with nine it's like, this has always been an interesting one to me because you kind of do stillness. Right? That's like one of the the traits that when I think of nine and calm, right, it's more it seems like it'd be more natural, but I think it's intentionality. Am I numbing, and finding, quote, unquote, stillness? Or am I intentionally saying, I'm going to go find that quiet to be in to check in with myself and to see where am I at and what I need. And we compound that with you said the word integration. And this is key because as we're talking about no head, heart gut, Catherine like nailing it here because we've got we all have access to all the spaces. Just because you're I got typed doesn't mean that that thinker space isn't active, or that feeling space is intact, it is just that your dominant lens that you perceive life through and interact with the world through is by this action, instinct, intuition kind of gut space. But for us to be whole, right, same thing for me as a feeler, I may feel my way through life, but I still need to integrate and work on getting to like a healthy access have both my headspace and my gut space, to be my most healthy rooted in my superpowers, version of myself, right to be my best self to get out of my type structure, or to relax my type structure enough that I can really be who I'm here to be. And I think that goes for everybody is we have to work on accessing all of those centers, because there's something for us in all of those centers, and it helps balance out.

Unknown:

Yes, that word intentionality is so important in that discernment process for me, because relaxing, is how I would describe it, like relaxing, can look like, sitting in front of the TV, and I'll be like, I'm relaxing, I'm really taking care of myself, because I'm still right, like, I'm still an uncommon, there's nothing ruffling my feathers, but I might be very checked out of my body, right or my, my experience, I'm just sort of numbing, and then there's a difference in being still with intention, and actually connecting to myself. And those two things, I mean, it, it took a lot of practice to tease that out. Because to an observer, it could look the same, you know, I'm just still I'm just doing my thing, and I'm alone. And I'm, you know, relaxing, but it feels really different in my body. And actually one is very energizing. When I'm connecting to myself, it actually brings energy and gives me some fire and oomph to, you know, go out into the world and show up as myself versus the other. It just kind of keeps me in this repetitive inertia, which is another, you know, a big word for nines is inertia it's getting going can be really hard. And for me also once I'm going to be very hard to stop, which is something that, you know, one of the best things I think nines can do for themselves is like build in structure and accountability for the things that they know are hard for them. For me personally, that was leaving work used to be really hard because once I was there, I would just be in it, you know, and I was I was teaching and so the school day would end and then I would start planning and I would just keep planning, and I would be the last car in the parking lot because I just couldn't find an endpoint. It just carried me through. And I started building in. I used friends and co workers as accountability buddies and I said you know if you see My car at 6pm, like told me to leave that kind of thing. And also, you know, for myself like building in exercise after work and like I have to go to this class and do this thing. Because otherwise I will just keep going. And often it's a sometimes it's not even a productive working, it's just sort of puttering around, sometimes mentally, just, even if I am still, my brain will just be having a hard time prioritizing what are the important things for me to do next. And I don't know, I'm thinking about this. And I'm thinking about that. One of the ways I've heard nines described as like, nines are in that that body triad is also sometimes like the more in the doing triad, but we're doing repressed and so like, a lot of nines are very busy looking. They're they're always doing they're always, you know, they might always be out and about, and they might always have tasks. They're not just like, lazy, quote, unquote, sitting around doing nothing. They're very productive looking. But sometimes they're doing and not productively, there isn't a focus to it, we have a hard time prioritizing what is the important thing to do, which I admire eights a lot for it, because eights are all about prioritization and like, Yep, I can see the top list item. And that's what I'm doing. And I'm doing it now. And I'm like, How do you know? How do you know that's the top? That's fascinating to me?

Juli Wenger:

I feel Yeah. Yeah. So there is, with some of this structure stuff, I want to make sure we just touch on the type three and the type six lines. Before we move towards wrapping up. What does the end you mentioned a little bit about six. But let's go back there for a minute. What does nine moving to six, which is often called the stress and resource point. What does that look like for you?

Unknown:

Yeah, my roommate is a six. And she has helped me see a lot of the things that I do that go to six, when I'm in a less grounded place, sometimes I I do feel that I resource some six points in stress, when I get into a worst case scenario thinking a big like, what if spiral, if I'm stressed about something, it's a very, I jump really to the head and to turning around all the thoughts of what could go wrong, or how to be prepared for the, you know, this inevitability or that, and it leads to a paralysis for me, it's just I can get stuck in that loop without moving forward, or, you know, being able to come to a decision point, because I'm really up here in my head and not grounded in my body and what, what do I want or what feels right in my body, or, you know, give it more time, that kind of thing. So especially when I feel there's like a time pressure, I can get really, you know, I see myself adopting some of those habits of type six structure. And for the three, when I feel clear about what I want, and my desires, I can get very good at meeting a goal for myself, you know, like, it's day to day, that's really hard for me goal setting, and goal meeting can be very challenging things, but when I'm clear, it feels like, yeah, I can do that. I can achieve that, you know, and, and I can go sort of be an expert in this field or, you know, rely on on the knowledge that I have asked to show up in a in a certain way that people will recognize me and honor my expertise. And I think that that's, I feel really good in that space. And I feel much clearer in why I'm doing what I'm doing. Because sometimes I'm doing but I'm not. I'm not really sure what, why or what the purpose is. And so when I resource that part of three for me, it's like it's clarity on why and where I'm going.

Juli Wenger:

Beautiful. As we start to shift towards. I feel almost constant like sad because we're wrapping up the series. It's

Unknown:

been so many feelings right now. I love this year.

Juli Wenger:

I've been thinking about this for so so long. And actually it's interesting because we struggled to find a nine interesting and I just I thought that was kind of funny. But as we're wrapping up if there are some type nines, or potential type nines who are listening to this episode, do you have any any thoughts for them or advice for them on discovering this and going on their growth journey?

Unknown:

Yeah, a lot. I'll try to distill it down to a few things. I think one of the biggest things for me recently has been remembering that I am allowed to ask for time and space to make a decision. nines are sometimes considered, you know, yes, people, which a lot of types are for different reasons, right tools could be yes, people in order, you know, to be seen as helpful. And to be needed nines. It's really like, Oh, I didn't even think no was an option. You know, it's like, I didn't consider it. So when that automatic functioning happens for a nine of Yeah, I mean, I heard your reasoning, it sounded great. Let's do it. Yes. Before checking in with yourself, for me, that can lead to, you know, the feeling later of Ooh, is that an alignment? For me? Did I really want to say yes, and taking that time, and asking for it upfront. That was the big thing for me is going into a conversation, where, you know, there might be a decision to make on the table at the end of that conversation and saying up front, I'm excited to enter this conversation. Just so you know, I won't be making a decision today, I will be taking a few days to consider. That's been honestly life changing for me. It happened on when I was interviewing to join a gym. And you know, they want you to sign up. And I told them the interview, I said, I'm not going to make a decision today. And he said, Okay, we had this conversation, it went great. I was like, I want to sign up with this gym, this place is awesome. And he said, I'll just remind you, what you told me at the beginning of our session was that you didn't want to make a decision today. So take that or leave it, you know, and be honestly having a conversation with partner who will remind you of that is its bonus. But just that accountability to yourself and knowing that like, you don't have to know right away. And most of the time people, most of the time people respect, I think your need to stay in touch with yourself, I think most of the time it goes well. And the fear is that somebody will say that's unacceptable. You can't have your own needs, you know, and I think living into that experience of asking for what you need. And realizing it's not so bad, can be really powerful for nines, and baby steps, you know, trying in those those little ways, like joining a gym instead of you know, in your marriage or something really big, trying little things. And learning that your voice matters. It can be really helpful

Juli Wenger:

if you're in a position where you love a nine or no nine and you think about that stuff too, because as a as a boss, I've had nines that have worked for me and understanding the system is something that for me is an impulsive, too, because I am like super, like let's just jump at it make decisions, like I live on the hate line eight line all the time. And I had to learn to either like prep in advance and say, here's what we're going to talk about. And here's what we need to decide about or to learn to pull myself back and say, Okay, we're gonna have a conversation. And then I'm going to say let's circle around in two days. And we can talk about what the next steps are because we can create circumstances when we're not wired the same way that can really overwhelm and disempower people that are in our lives. So thank you for doing this.

Unknown:

Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful. I'm really

Juli Wenger:

grateful. It was a powerful conversation, and it's definitely blessed me so that Enneagram series, we're gonna do it again. That's my impulsive.

Unknown:

Hesitation to do it again.

Juli Wenger:

Nobody holds me to my impulsiveness. Anyway, thank you for joining us and until next time on okay. I hope this episode triggered something in you and got you thinking about your next growth curve. Make sure to check out the show notes for more details and links to resources or people that we've mentioned today. And make sure you hit follow or subscribe. And if you have a hot minute we'll leave an awesome review. I would be so beyond grateful. Until next time, be to much DARE YOU