Becoming Ourselves - The Podcast

The Enneagram Type 7 with Anastasia Sauvage

March 02, 2022 Season 3 Episode 9
Becoming Ourselves - The Podcast
The Enneagram Type 7 with Anastasia Sauvage
Show Notes Transcript

Do sevens really have more fun? This week we hear from Anastasia Sauvage about what it's really like being a seven who wants to "march to the beat of their own drum, but still be part of the experience." She tells us about how the enneagram gave her a sense of relief and validation for how she shows up in the word. And she gives us some amazing insight about what it looks like to be an unhealthy 7 moving toward the perfectionism of a 1 and what it's like to be a healthy 7 growing toward the stillness of a 5. 

MEET ANASTASIA:

Anastasia Sauvage is a transformation coach and soul evolution strategist who helps you lock on to your purpose and live it. She specializes in the Enneagram and somatic techniques to get the mind, body, and spirit on board to do what you came here to do.

Instagram: @anastasia.sauvage

Website: www.anastasiasauvage.com


MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
The Narrative Enneagram

CONNECT WITH JULI
Instagram | Clubhouse | Facebook: @juliwenger
https://www.juliwenger.com/

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Juli Wenger:

We're on this earth for a purpose. You want to live a life that matters. So let's get through the fear and the overwhelm and all the crap that gets in the way of you living the life of fear for this is the becoming ourselves podcast where we are fired up about you getting clear on who you are, what you're called to, and how to get there. Because the world is waiting for you to show up and own your power. I'm your host, Juli Wenger, a coach, a speaker, a Jesus lover in Enneagram, two, and a tree shaker. Let's dive into what's keeping you stuck. Because on the other side is a light that's fired up the film. Focusing, focusing I feel like this is probably appropriate for the type seven episode Welcome to becoming ourselves the podcast Enneagram series episode eight, we had an interrupt so and so it's not lining up. But we're doing the types of an interview today. And I'm really excited. Cuz we have Anastasia with us today. We did our some of our Enneagram training together that narrative. And I just like really pumped to have you on the show and talk about life as a seven and what that's like, and it's probably going to be a little bit like our type two episode because it was all over the place. So buckle up, y'all. You want to tell them about you?

Unknown:

Sure. Cool. Yeah. So my name is Anastasia. And I only

Juli Wenger:

said that wrong. Good. Josh is all good. Yeah.

Unknown:

million ways to pronounce that. So. Yes, but I'm a coach. And I work with the Enneagram. And what I do, and I'm more specifically a transformation coach. And I like to help people help themselves and use all their tools and go off into the world and do all the things that they want to do in I guess a very type seven fashion, but

Juli Wenger:

go explore and find your adventure.

Unknown:

Indeed, yes. Break through the blocks. Love yourself, you know all the good things? Yes.

Juli Wenger:

That that is very type seven, all the good things. So tell us a little bit about because this is how we've been rolling out most of these episodes. Tell us a bit about sevens just generically like Enneagram one on one. What do we need to know about the enthusiast?

Unknown:

Well, I think that I open that up pretty bright on excitement. All the things. So sevens, true to their name of big the enthusiast is just there's YaSM for everything. But mostly seeking pleasure and seeking fun and heightened states and, and so it's kind of like chasing the sparkly thing. So another way that I like to look at it, though, is like just joy for life. And the just the existing when sevens are in a more integrated place, I would say that there's just the simplicity of really enjoying just being alive. Adventure. Trying all the things I think the the gore band or the Epicure or other names for the seven. So yes,

Juli Wenger:

yeah, there's some themes there in terms of the idealism because you're part of the idealist triad. And so once four sevens are ones can see like what can be better, what can be improved for us or like the beauty in the world and you see the joy and the adventure and the opportunity and have this variety drive that is pretty much unrivaled in the whole Enneagram like I want change and like be some change and less wet. Like what happens when you're stressed out?

Unknown:

Oh, well, that's where perfectionism kicks in, of course, the stress stress passive one. And so what the imagery that I like to use when explaining the stress point of seven is having a box full of all different kinds of things. And I like kind of imagine this as being a box of like, like costumes and the seven reaches for one, and they look at it and like no, they got the other one like no, not good enough. And they're just going through this box and everything is flying in the air. And then all of a sudden the box is empty and They just come to this point of, like freeze of Oh, no, all the options are gone. Nothing was good enough. And yeah, it's it's a spiral.

Juli Wenger:

I've heard it referred to as like, I start to need certainty when normally I wouldn't. And I get really hard on myself like inner critic starts to really ramp up what what takes sevens out? What's their kryptonite?

Unknown:

Hmm really giving in to urges impulses gluttony and just too much of a good thing, too much caffeine and not taking a moment to savor, because that's like the key. And I think that that's the gift also is being able to pause and find all of the magic that we would normally see in a million things in one thing.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah. Tell me about anticipation, versus like being present.

Unknown:

Hmm, I would actually link that back to something that takes us out is because we we get excited about being excited about something, it's like meta excitement. And, and sometimes, and especially my childhood, I found that I would almost have more fun, anticipating an event, getting ready for the event, and I would get to the event. So it was like a school dance or something. And I'd be like, Wow, this is really boring. It was so much better in my head.

Juli Wenger:

That's like, that's been one of the consistent things and all of the talking to sevens, working with sevens, I've attracted a lot of type seven assistance. So that's been kind of fun. And just, you know, reading the literature, where it's like, the anticipation of the thing is always better than the thing because you have this visionary capacity. And this creative capacity and this ability to imagine things like at their most enjoyable. And often the things can't live up to it. Plus, then there's this completion, which flies in the face of that drive for variety. Indeed. So what about your journey? When did you discover Enneagram? Where were you in life?

Unknown:

So I discovered the Enneagram for my therapist who I loved, and we're on eight years this year. And he recommended it because he knew that I was in a personality typologies and astrology and all different types of vocabularies for how humans do what they do. I love the ologies all have the ologies. And, and he gave me the wisdom of the Enneagram. And he and I still have it and it still sits on my desk like every day and and I devoured it. I was like what this is so cool. How does this work? And and then I just kept going back to it and reading more and studying more and seeing all the patterns linking up in life and people and interactions. And yeah, it was amazingly healing for me personally, to name a lot of the things that I was doing by default that I didn't realize,

Juli Wenger:

yeah, sort of the path through from awareness of those things to I'd imagine something that looks like more freedom from patterns and taking some power back. What did that look like?

Unknown:

Hmm? Oh yeah, being able to, to name the things such as, like, the grass is greener or things that I would even feel a lot of shame about, like losing interest in something and starting so many projects and not finishing three quarters of them. And, and also i i had a one parental figure so that was interesting. But yeah, I internalized a lot of these things as being maybe like bad or I wasn't gonna get anywhere and and then once I read about the sevens nature in just that's kind of part of the mechanism. Then it felt really liberating. I was like, oh, okay, maybe I can actually use this as something to step into my power with rather than feeling like it's a detriment and for a handicap to me.

Juli Wenger:

Did you find that for that you were comparing yourself to how other people functions. I'm telling yourself you needed to be more like that.

Unknown:

Oh, yes, yes, yes, definitely. Yeah, I would, I would pick out the different qualities and people that I thought were optimal. And like, Oh, if only I could do that, I should do that. And then try to embody it. You know, it's been an I still catch myself doing that sometimes of like internal optimization through what I observe and slowing down.

Juli Wenger:

How do you see the Enneagram changing your relationships

Unknown:

in blue are so much better. I feel that. And one of the the main things that really locked the Enneagram in for me, was understanding that one of my main parental figures, being a one gave me so much more understanding and ability to have compassion and empathy. And like, it melted so much of the resistance that I felt because I was able to take a step back and appreciate. And that's kind of how it is to with with relationships of all kinds, you know, as I think about the type structure, and then I think about the origin of the tribe type structure. And then I just, I'm filled with so much compassion and curiosity, as opposed to like, racing or

Juli Wenger:

judgment. This is, I think, my favorite thing, or one of my favorite things about this as a system and as a tool and a roadmap back to us is we develop not only compassion for other people, because it actually starts internally, we develop compassion for us. But then with this understanding, we've been talking about this a little bit in the series, but with this understanding of, oh, this person's not wired like me. They have different needs, they have different coping mechanisms, what is a coping mechanism, right, like with type ones that can when they're not healthy, be super judgmental. Outwardly, they're actually way more judgmental inwardly. And then that stuff just leaks out. And often they won't see it as being as off putting, or intrusive as it can be. Because there's so much harder on them that their frame of reference, or their comparison point is, like skewed. And so even using that as a specific example, being able to see that, and see that behavior pattern and go, Whoa, right, this is what's driving this. So it's not all about me, which especially as a to write that wants to blame myself for, like, all the things and, you know, prove my enoughness I'm like, Oh, that's a permission slip to let that stuff go. But there is there's so much compassion for other people to allow them to be. And then also to look at how do I empower them? How do I communicate with them in a way that's more effective? How do I maybe be more clear about what I need? Or what I want? Or where do I need to find those safe spaces to explore my emotions? Thinking about sevens that traditionally typically are like, Yeah, I don't want to do that negative emotion thing. I'm just gonna like create my favorite analogy is this love to see how this lands with you. I'm going to create Neverland in my head. And I'm just going to like, find all of the good things, and I'm going to play and I'm going to have fun and I'm going to take care of myself. And like, I'm safe here. I'm going to avoid the fear and the sadness and all of those things like yeah, I remember hearing that. I was like, what is so fascinating?

Unknown:

Oh, yeah, I can relate to that one big time. And, and what a saving grace it was, though, in childhood. Because I had a pretty intense childhood where there weren't a lot of anchor points, if any at all. And that's where I found safety was in my Neverland. Yeah. Which was very colorful. And

Juli Wenger:

on this is the theme, right? It's the and it ranges in terms of what happens in people's childhoods, right. Like some people will have a quote unquote, normal childhood and they'll still attach to that Neverland thing because we're, you know, we're wired the way that we're wired. It's a matter of how much do we over attach to our protective patterns, and that can definitely be impacted by our environment and our safety and our security and all those things. But the desire for safety because you're a head type, so it's like the avoidance of fear and fear is that underlying emotion when we scroll back on the last couple Types, it's the how do I predict the future so that I can just, you know, be prepared for what's coming? How do I pre plan? How do I worst case scenario plans so that I can try to like, make sure that we'll all survive, if something goes wrong, and then there's a seven that's like to win that fear thing, ain't nobody got time for that, I'm going to go hang out over here in this protective pattern that totally did serve me. And that I did need. When I look at that, for my type, as you know, people pleasing I needed that to figure out how to get loved back in a way that I could receive. And with the seven structure rights, how do I make sure that I feel safe? How do I learn to take care of me and my own needs? And just not get stuck in that stuff? How do we not get stuck in the negative emotion? Because that's, I mean, I see you shaking your head like it's a fear point. So maybe you can speak to that a little?

Unknown:

Oh, yes, absolutely. One thing that was extremely enlightening, that I learned in, in our training in the narrative was when one to one seven was speaking on the panel. And he said that, that as a one to one seven, he definitely has the all or nothing thing that just operates in every capacity. And the feeling that like a good feeling will never end. And that's exciting. And that's where we get in that anticipation and the Neverland but then also, on the reverse, what we were talking about was, like, feeling that being stuck in something will also last forever. Yeah. Yeah. And avoiding that at all costs. And I feel like there's even a heightened sensitivity that sevens have to uncomfortable experiences, which I've been thinking about myself and comparing and contrasting with other sevens. I know. I'm not sure about that yet. But I'll get back to you on that.

Juli Wenger:

Well, that yeah, there's a lot of fascinating kind of new ish research and connections and theory that's coming out with this whole system. And, and some of that we just heard about and learned about in class together, but neurobiologically, that different types are structured a little differently. And if you look at six, that has a heightened internal alarm system, and easier trigger into panic into fight, flight freeze, it would, I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall here. But it would make sense to me, given that that's one of your wings. And that you share with you know, fives and sixes, that thinking your way through life and perceiving the world through thought interacting the world primarily dominantly, through thought that there would be some kind of overlap there. Or some kind of, you know, connection of those dots. So, I mean, that'll be interesting to see over the next number of years as we look at the, the physical and the, like I said, neurobiologically, how are we all structured? Are we born into type with actual differences like that? Yeah, but I've heard about trauma as an example, right, with sevens where there are some things that because your superpower partially other than being a visionary is reframing. Right? Like there's an ability to look at things and shift the perspective. And that's so So, so needed. And the rest of us are like, we need you to do that for us. Okay. Like, sometimes we need to get out of our own our own ways of thinking and as a coach, I would imagine that's one of your superpowers. And there's the the polarity there, right of reframing things before there's time to process them. And the stories that I've heard about, like some things just can't be reframed. Some things you can't just spin them on their head and be like, okay, yeah, but here's the opportunity, or here's the silver lining, or here's the great thing about it. And that is where there comes some real risk for that type structure to be taken out and to feel particularly stuck in something that's negative. And that maybe they haven't had an opportunity to develop coping skills for and mechanisms for and really like integrating and coming to terms with.

Unknown:

Absolutely, oh yeah. I love how you put that were not having a chance to integrate before spinning it and how it is a superpower indeed, and And in my coaching practice, I feel like so much of what I do is reframing. But, you know, taking time to integrate and look at everything but But absolutely. And also the key pressing that the other types appreciate it. Because sometimes as a seven, I wonder, actually, I heard this on a panel too, from another seven, where she said, did I spend enough time grieving? Did I spend enough time sitting in that emotion to get what I needed? Because she was anticipating her way out of it already.

Juli Wenger:

Yet, that it's the intentionality, right, of really approaching the day to day, continually, right? It's continual choosing, it's a continual being in observation mode and saying, like, where am I but being able to look at? What is my intention right now? Is my intention to avoid? Or is my intention to engage and really find, find? What are the lessons in this? What are the opportunities in this, actually, what is the thing that I need to sit with, that I need to deal with? It's building me and my character? Because I love the whole identity angle that the Enneagram gives us access to? What have you learned about who you are? Beyond your protective patterns?

Unknown:

Ooh, this reminds me of a question that I posted on my story. That was a repost, actually. And the question was, Who are you without using your name, your job title, your gender, your race, like and any of these identifiers that we use as humans? And my friend responded, and she gave her answer. And then she asked me for mine. And I thought about it. And I was like, feeling into it, you know, getting out of the mind getting more into the heart and body. I was thinking, I think that I'm laughter I think I'm the sound of laughter and that energy.

Juli Wenger:

It's coming to terms with your essence, right. And this has been so much of what I've learned in working through this as a system that it's when we take all of those roles and all those titles out of the picture. When we eliminate like to think them think of them as boxes lined up on the ground with big Sharpie on the side that say like, mom and entrepreneur, and boss and wife, and, and and, and we shove all of those boxes and what's left. And where I came to was, these essential qualities are love, joy, strength, light and grace. Just like when you take it all away, that's me. It's not somebody else. And it's not every other two. But as I've explored that, and even just thinking about, as I've explored that with sevens, our type gives us so much insight into what those characteristics are into what that essence looks like into what we represent about what's good in the world. Maybe you can speak a little bit to that, too.

Unknown:

Yeah. And you're saying like more and the, like the essence of the type beyond?

Juli Wenger:

Yeah, like what are the things that you see as maybe consistent characteristics with sevens are things that if we look at the virtue of type, for example, virtue of type two, being humility, it's about being able to give without needing to receive something back. And I think that that's very much encompassed in these words and these things that I've landed on. So for sevens or for you as a seven, where do you think that leads for you?

Unknown:

Hmm. I think that that leads back to the the joy of life and existence and, and finding the magic and everything. And when it comes to seeing the bright side of things, from a deeply resonant space, and not an escapist space, and also just the appreciation for variety, and all the things that exist and also curiosity, the spark of inspiration, and openness. I think there's a open curiosity that sevens have that is can be pretty disarming for people where it's like Come as you are, who are you? Let's let's go do some things and it's less about well, you know, for maybe in our stress point, it might be a little bit more in the the judgment zone, but when we're in the essence space, it's it's all about just being

Juli Wenger:

So let's talk maybe a little bit about growth point, because I know we've touched on stress points a bit of how you take some of those type one characteristics on some of their coping mechanisms. But when you're really moving towards integration when your, your healthiest version of you, and you start moving into five, what does that look like?

Unknown:

Oh, I love moving to five. I feel like, Yeah, I'm doing it. Or at least the ego is, but so moving to five, is, it's really relieving, I would say because it and when you said permission slip, I was thinking, the moving to five is the permission slip to slow down, and to just enjoy what I'm looking at in the moment and, and not feeling like oh, maybe I should be doing this. Instead, maybe this would be better. And that's the the constant narrative of like, having the optimal experience doing the thing that's going to be the most beneficial. And so the five is permission to just enjoy. Yeah, and just focus.

Juli Wenger:

What about your wings? How do they show? Yeah.

Unknown:

Well, I would say that I identify most strongly with the six wing. So with the six wing it, I'm also self Pres. Seven with the six swing, which feels quite six. Yeah. All in all, like very, very much identify with the seven. But I feel like that gives me more of the six five and what that manifest sighs is thinking about security, a little bit more, thinking about relationships, networks, people, like I am a very, very much networking kind of person, I like to be on good terms with everybody that I'm connected to. And I'm more of the type. And I think this is common for the seven to more so they want to march to the beat of their own drum, but they also want to be part of the experience. And so and so many of my professional experiences and just in my life, I've made relationships with like the managers like friendships, you know, or, or just like being a, I used to be a professional, aerialist. So, being a soloist, but in a company, and I'm in this relationship, and also when I joined the company, I was already friends with the entire cast before I joined. So

Juli Wenger:

there's a groundedness to a self pres seven. Because sometimes sevens are thought of as like really flighty. And I think typically, that's more in the social seven bucket, or it's or the unhealthy seven, where there's just that distractibility that runs really rampant. But that six wing to like, there's just a, there's a groundedness to your energy, that's different. And that's where I really want to remind people as they're listening to this whole series, that none of the guests, none of you who were here representing to some extent, your type are a monolith for all people of that type, right? There's so much variety within each, which is also something I love about the system, where it's more like 118 types of nine, by the time that we factor in dominant wings structure, and we factor in subtype structure and all of those things, it's like, this is not a box that you put yourself in. And that's it, that's all here's your checklist, like see. But there is a level of kind of consistency or alignment or know that that shows up with like within each type and within the subtypes. And so we could get another seven on the show, and it could be like a totally, completely different energy. And the needs, those core needs are still the same, and the core fears are still the same, right? That desire for joy and fulfillment is going to be consistent. And for avoiding the negative emotions of being stuck. That's going to be consistent, but how it behaviorally shows up. And what kind of energy those people present with is going to really vary. So if you're actively working on developing your eight wing, and I think this is like this is so fun, okay, because we, we are our type or dominant type, but there's this flex in terms of how developed are each of the wings. How much do we choose to go there, how much we naturally pull from there. So when you're eight shows up, how does that shift you?

Unknown:

oh eight is great. So, eight is when I'm feeling on fire, and I'm getting all the things done. And I'm like, executing and completing. And eight is like present in my workouts, you know, I like pushing it to the limit all the time. And it's a funny experience with being a seven as well, because I've burnt myself out pretty hardcore in the past in that realm. That glowy piece.

Juli Wenger:

Yep. Was the eight like I'm on or I'm off, like, I'm the 240 volt plug, I'm going I'm intense, or I'm like, I'm done. It's so funny. I'm married to an eight. It's like, yeah, sorry. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so it's like, it's powerful. It's fiery. It's it sounds competitive.

Unknown:

Competitive? Yeah. And it's a little bit more outspoken, because I think with the six, there's a bit more consideration for maybe what I say or what I do, because I'm thinking a little bit more about my network and connection. But with eight is more independent, and gives me more freedom, I would say.

Juli Wenger:

Love that. Okay, so one more question. If you have people who might be a seven, that are listening to this right now, are there any pieces of advice or thoughts that you want to share with them? As they consider going on an Enneagram? Discovery journey?

Unknown:

Oh, yes. So to those that believe that they identify with seven, pretty confidently, I would say that whatever you're seeking really does exist and slowing down. And it seems like the last place you want to be the last thing you want to do, but I swear there's so much gold and just being with a tough emotion, taking a breath feeling into your body, like coming down from being all above your head energetically, just more in and yeah, and and also, for people that that think they might be a seven, I would look at how, how much you don't like it when you don't have a lot of options.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah, sevens. One of those types that when people read the Enneagram books, or they listen to podcasts, or like, I want to be that they're fun, and they're creative. And it's for variety. And they're like think that it's just like the number to be right. And I have to remind people sometimes, but it's because we aspire to be something is not because we are that thing, and every type is both necessary and equally valuable. So whatever you are, is who you are. And that's for purpose. And that's with purpose. There's just so much beauty and so much opportunity in really being able to route into and understand, okay, this is how I'm wired. And, and it's funny too, because I actually had this conversation with someone the other day, and I'm like, but I really want to be seven, I was like, okay, but here are some of the things that take seven out and are like, okay, maybe I don't want to be seven. We have to look at the whole picture. But there's something too, when you really start exploring it. And it's like, oh, that sounds like me. And then you get to some of the self protective patterns, like the avoiding through reframing and things like that. That if you're like, I don't want that to be me, that's kind of gross and icky and uncomfortable. But I feel like it might be you might be on to something so take that as a clue. Thank you for doing this with us today. I'm really excited to be on share and being vulnerable and all of the things we're gonna drop some links in the show notes so that you can follow Anastasia Look at me, look at me go I did it. Chile, come on anyway, if you want to follow her and see what she's up to, we'd love that love to hear if you're enjoying these episodes and let's landing for you. So drop us some notes and until next time on The love I hope this Episode triggered something in you and got you thinking about your next growth curve. Make sure to check out the show notes for more details and links to resources or people that we've mentioned today. And make sure you hit follow or subscribe and if you have a hot minute will leave an awesome review. I would be so beyond grateful. Until next time, be too much DARE YOU