Today we're chatting with Elizabeth Evans about arguably the most misunderstood enneagram type - the 5s. Our 5 friends love all things knowledge and facts which can make them often seem aloof and disengaged. In this episode, Elizabeth offers up her unique perspective that answers the question "what's actually going on in a 5's inner world?" We cover so much more in this episode from the difficulties of 2021 and what being in a 7 state of stress might be like to the amazing advantages that being a 5 brings.
Your story is meaningful. Elizabeth helps make it impactful. Podcast producer and founder of Elizabeth Evans Co - Elizabeth is on a mission to create a fleet of compelling storytellers. Her 360 boutique podcast studio helps creatives strategically build their show from conception to launch. Her uniquely created podcast methodology has helped world-renowned artists, best-selling authors, award-winning musicians, and impactful influencers to create transformative podcasts full of timeless, quality conversations that empower listeners into extraordinary action.
Being well-versed in the Enneagram herself, Elizabeth is a type 5 that previously deeply wrestled with a scarcity mindset that kept her wrapped up in her mind, but never actually taking action. She has a powerful story of how she flipped the script of her fear around, never feeling fully competent, and stepped into a mindset that led her to become a successful, female, business owner. She has learned how to use her perceptiveness to dive deeply and intimately with her clients to uncover the impactful nuances of their own stories. She believes that everyone's story is meaningful, but it takes skill to make it impactful- and that is her sweet spot. Living by the mantra of "sometimes what you are created for has not yet been created" Elizabeth turned down a job with the CIA, moved to Nashville, and opened a very successful podcasting agency. Elizabeth has so much respect for the insight and words the Enneagram has provided to see her investigative nature not as something faulty within her, but as her superpower to live a truly transformative life.
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We're on this earth for a purpose. You want to live a life that matters. So let's get through the fear and the overwhelm and all the crap that gets in the way of you living the life of fear for this is the becoming ourselves podcast where we are fired up about you getting clear on who you are, what you're called to, and how to get there. Because the world is waiting for you to show up and own your power. I'm your host, Juli Wenger, a coach, a speaker, a Jesus lover in Enneagram, two, and a tree shaker. Let's dive into what's keeping you stuck. Because on the other side, is a light that's fired up the film. I am really, really, really excited today. Because actually, this is Episode 85, of becoming ourselves the podcast. And today on the show, we have Elizabeth Evans and Elizabeth was an inspiration for me and starting the podcast and a support for me and starting the podcast. So quick little like shout out. Thank you for helping us get our feet under us. Because this has been like such a cool journey. It's been like a year and a almost a year and a half. So to back up the truck a little bit. Elizabeth is a Podcast Producer. And she is I'm going to just read out your bio because like I said to you, this is like super readable and interesting. And so she's on a mission to create a fleet of compelling storytellers. She has a 360 Boutique podcast studio that helps creative strategically build their show from conception to launch. And then it talks a little bit about like helping world renowned artists and authors and musicians and I'm just gonna like go ahead and name drop Lauren Daigle in here right now because I was snooping Elizabeth's Instagram this morning and I found girls so hard. It's like she's there goes my like volume off the charts. Sorry, Daniel. I love it. Yes, our podcasts editor's gonna love it. Shout out to Daniel, but I love her so, so much. And I like almost lost my mind's eye one degree of separation away from learned guilt right now.Unknown:
It's true. That's a true statement. And it's not snooping. It's market researchJuli Wenger:
woke up. I was doing my homework and being prepared, which after all of the chaos and moving of COVID life, that's like that's a win. So, yes, yes. Okay, so we're gonna talk about Enneagram type five, which is actually like, this is such a weird full circle day for me, because that's actually how I discovered you was you were on Ian Morgan Crohns podcast typology, which is phenomenal. We'll drop links in the show notes. And you were talking about life as a type five. And I have a five brother, but I just like don't get fives. Okay, I'm a to you're not the only feeler, you guys are kind of like, private sometimes. But I just could not wrap my head around five. And I was listening to you talk about your experience. And I was like, oh, oh, okay. This is like, yeah, I have some insight now, which is amazing. So let's start here. Can you tell us a little bit like just generically about fives? Yes.Unknown:
Yes, I actually I did a little snooping too. So I was listening to your Enneagram series and heard you ask some other Enneagram types of question. And finally, you know, prepared and we'd like to learn, that's a great place to start, I will say and your grandfather's let them learn, we will have knowledge. To me black and white facts make me feel very safe. And I feel very protected in that. And I think that that is a big thing for five is we do like to retreat a lot into ourselves into our thoughts, which was something I thought everyone did, until I learned a little bit more about the Enneagram. And also, I mean, a big thing. And it's something that I've had to continue to work on, especially being a business owner is conserving energy. And that was something that was always a driving force for me was I just need to make sure I have enough energy to make it to the next day, versus how can I knock it out of the park today? How can I have like a really great time. So that's been a big differentiator for me probably recently, but the biggest thing I would say that separates a five maybe also from other numbers is in other types is I think we come across like we don't feel a lot. But I think we actually feel very profoundly and very deeply in the way that I'll describe it. And it's kind of unusual, and it's hard to even put to words it's like there's you and there's me. But there's also this almost like third plane of like me observing you and me Reality. And it says sounds like crazy I like as I'm saying it. I know that sounds crazy. But there's this other level of we are feeling everything. But we're feeling it from such an observation standpoint, that there's a little bit of dissociation that I'm constantly in tension within constantly pushing back on. So I think fives can see the world very differently. And it can come across, sometimes probably aloof, and cold and clinical. But we're actually feeling almost so much that we have to like, stop and push back a little bit, because there's you and there's me. But then there's also like, I can actually feel myself in the moment observing you and me. And sometimes that can get a little bit a little bit lopsided upside down. So that would probably be the best way I can state the internal mindset of a five.Juli Wenger:
I am so fascinated by this, because one of the things as a feeler type who gets so caught up in my feelings and processes through feelings, it's been part of my growth journey is developing the observer space, is really being able to go, oh, hold up. I am in the mud right now, how do I do that Zoom outfit? How do I kind of get some space, from my experience right now and from being stuck in my feeling and start to watch what's happening start to be in that observer space, which is one of the names for fives, the observer, the investigator. And when we see that come through, there's something very self protective there. And I'm curious if you could speak to that of what, what do you think happens? Or what do you think the risk is? Or maybe past Elizabeth, because I know you've done a lot of work, but what's the risk of really allowing yourself to be in the moment,Unknown:
it's still something that I evaluate, and it probably is different in each situation, when you were talking about, he was a to wanting to step more into the observer space. I think, at least for me, I can, I'll say I functioning extremes. But it is not apparent that I function in extremes. It's more of an emotional extreme of like, I'm either present or I'm not. And it's a flip that will switch on and off. But there's nothing outwardly or externally that somebody can identify to be like, Oh, that's a bad red flag or a bad behavior. It's not. She's, it's an addiction. It's not something that's like an extra behavior, like she's going off the rails, but it is an extreme internal shift. And I think it feels extreme, because the risk feels so big. So for me in relationships, one of my best friends here is a counselor, which is very dangerous for fives. And she actually asked me, What is your biggest fear? If you showed up authentically yourself in your next situation? She said to me in a DM on like a Monday morning, and I was like, Okay, I'm emotionally wrecked for the rest of the day. And I think this might be for me personally, where I go into my four wing, a bit. I am afraid if I am not more so showing up in the observer space and kind of being reactive to the person in front of me, we won't create a special connection that I know they're looking for. And they will walk away as if our time was wasted. And I never want to be wasteful. So I think for me, even though I probably won't walk away feeling that much of a deep connection as maybe the other person does. That's my biggest risk, I think of like being present is I don't want them to view that time as wasteful. And will I have enough energy to go then into the next situation too, because I am very observant of myself, but also others other people's feelings as well, I have. I would say I'm very sensitive to small changes in environment, whether it's a personality change, or a conversation shift. And I think it's a gift that makes me really great at what I do with podcasting and conversations. In it is exhausting. So I'm constantly evaluating, is the other person feeling the connection that I want them to feel? And will I have enough energy to go into the next situation? Yeah.Juli Wenger:
So that relates back to and I want to make sure for people who are newer to this that are listening, there is this concept of different types having a different size Energy Tank, right, the capacity to interact with other people. And it's not that each type is consistently extroverted or introverted or anything like that. But one of the best ways that I've heard it explained it was actually Ian that had kind of taught this was that fives have a smaller Energy Tank. And there is a largely subconscious at least initially planning for and metering out of where am I going to need energy today? What am I going to need to give it to you? How do I make sure I have enough capacity to get through my day? Does that sound accurate to you like, is that your experience?Unknown:
Yes. And I will say, in this season of business ownership of you know, we, we've had the agency for about three or four years now. And that resonates with me so much before I was a business owner. When I stepped into business ownership, it was we just survive, and we get it done. And I would say that my brain has a hard time. I call it like getting almost like emotionally clogged. And so I would time management without something I was naturally great at. So time management, to me goes hand in hand with the energy conservation. And it wasn't until I got more of a handle on being able to actually plan out my next day. And I was like, Wait, my energy is dipping during different times of the day. When do I need to do creative work? When do I need to do administrative work? When do I need to do my writing work, and I was able to almost parse it out that way, because I was aware of the energy conservation. I will say 2020 21 was probably the most deeply and profoundly difficult year of my life. And I found myself becoming much more into the seven stress than I ever have. And I experienced myself as very flighty. So I felt like in 2021, which was an abnormal year for me, I almost resonated more with the seven because that was, it was such a prolong season of stress. So now I feel like I'm finally settling back into my five minutes now that we've had some time and space from some really large, life altering things that happened. And I find myself resonating with that more now. And it is gonna sound weird, because obviously, being depleted in energy is not a good thing. But being aware of when I'm energy depleted, makes me feel at home, because I feel like I'm coming back to my five minutes now that we're out of feels like 365 Day stress season. It'sJuli Wenger:
been a lot for a lot of people. And we've talked about this continually in coaching specialty spaces and social media spaces that it's like there's this continuum of healthy to unhealthy and the Enneagram likes to frame it in that kind of context, right? Here's what a healthy five looks like, here's what an average five looks like. Here's what healthy five looks like. And it's not like you're just in one of the buckets and you stay there all the time, we kind of move around, we bounce we shift and there's variations all the way along. But it's like we have this neutral in the middle. And this season of challenge and change and unpredictability and uncertainty and all of the the trauma, the collective trauma and grief that we've been experiencing as a world together, it's pushed a lot of people towards that unhealthy space and sometimes to the point where it's like there's a cliff there. And then we drop off and it's like I don't have coping mechanisms left. I've got nothing in my core type structure, which is essentially a collection of coping mechanisms. I have nothing left there to pull on. So we trigger out into it for you. It's seven for me, it's eight. And it's like our subconscious throwing up warning flares, signal flares, like you're not okay, you need to do something you need to take care of yourself. But there's so much power in this is where I hear what you're saying there's so much power and understanding that because then it's not just like what's wrong with me, I'm being you know, for me and being a jerk to my children. It's instead this, oh, I'm in that space. Okay, hold up, let's step into that observer space. Let's look at what's in my toolkit that I need to lean into so I can come back to myself. And it sounds like that's what's happening the return to yourself.Unknown:
Yeah, my I liked the signals that were like sending up like it's not 2021 felt like a firework show if that's what analogy we're going with. And so I think the biggest thing that I came out with from that and warning about myself because being present is so hard for fives, we can just sociate so easily. And I feel like the I feel like the consequence and the result of disassociating is delayed honesty. And I don't want to live in a state with myself or with others have delayed honesty. And it's not intentional. And it's not. It's not malicious, but it is less present where we are with ourselves, the less we know what we're feeling, the less honest we can actually be in that present moment with what's going on in front of us. And there's definitely wisdom and conversations are bringing up emotions at certain times after you've processed them. But being in control of that is the difference. versus six months later, I realized I felt this square I was going through this. And it gets confusing for the people around us. And that's probably the biggest relational hindrance of people that are probably in relationship with me, whether it's friends, or whether I get into a more romantic relationship. Like, that's something that's a gift I want to give to people moving forward that I think I saw the consequences inJuli Wenger:
2021. Yeah, there's an intentionality there of my operating according to default patterns. Am I just totally subconscious? Is my ego driving the bus? Or am I tuned in enough to really give the time and attention to stay curious about what am I feeling? And how do I leverage that? How do I choose to show up? How do I choose to be really in my power? And you said something earlier about being authentic, showing up as powerfully and authentically Elizabeth in every situation possible? And I mean, that's where our power lives is in our authenticity. But sometimes the authenticity is challenging, because there's that subconscious part that's like, no, no, no, let's not do that. Because that's not safe. All right. So let's maybe back up a little bit to when you discovered the Enneagram. Because I love these stories, right? I love these kind of a ha moments or things that come up, like what brought you to it, and how did it start to shift things for you?Unknown:
Yeah, I feel like I had two exposures. One was like a false strike. And one was for real. The first one that I like to tell us just a silly little story. But my first moved to Nashville, and I actually was on a date. i It was my first day after I moved here. And he was like, I hadn't heard the anagram. I was like, I have absolutely no idea what that word means. And he was like, Okay, well, we can't continue on this date until you finish this test. And I was like, the integrate, people are crazy. The natural people are crazy. I have made a mistake. I gotta go back home. What is this? Why am I taking this personality does other day like a coffee shop? It didn't go well, obviously. Yeah. It wasn't until maybe two years later, the Lord really speaks to me through dreams. And I woke up one morning, it was a Saturday morning. And I heard in my head, really, which was from a word. He said, You've been emotionally or you've been hoarding, you've been emotionally hoarding your emotions, you've been hurting. Oh, that's good. You don't want to get those like drops or downloads that are just way smarter than the thought that you could ever have. I was like, I don't even know what that means. So I googled it. This is not spiritual at all. But it ended up being quite a spiritual path for me. And the first thing that came up was a grant five, yeah. And that was my first exposure to it. And then obviously, after that, fives, love to learn and dive deeply. So I just want to like a 36 hour binge of learning all that I cut about the Enneagram. And I'm sending stuff to my family, because I do think that fives are often misunderstood. And I always felt very, I always felt misunderstood. I always felt like I always had like my little pail of loneliness, walking through life, because I didn't understand I thought there was something wrong with me. So I'm like reading all of this stuff. And I'm singing to my family. And that was really where it started. Because I think I had done so many other personality tests prior to that. And I never had breakthrough with them. And that's not to say that they're good, bad or different or wrong or unhelpful. It was just when I started to evaluate myself from a motivation and fear perspective. Honestly, it gave more clarity on other things like the Myers Briggs and things like that, because it wasn't just my personality. And my internal narrative didn't match up until I had the clarity from going through some of the Intagram understanding, isn't it amazingJuli Wenger:
how God uses things that are not overtly faith based to pull us in? And that was so much my experience with this to where I just my joke is he hit me over the head with a two by four with the Enneagram over and over and over again. It was coming up in every conversation. It was coming up in podcasts and like listening to Andy Stanley and Ian Krons on and they're talking about Enneagram I was like what is this and Yeah, there's something so there's something so exposing. But it was also this really incredible tool in him, helping me to understand how he sees me, and how he's built me with purpose and for purpose that is different than other people. And that that was okay. Because when I discovered this whole system, I mean, not only was I completely burnt out in my last job, but there was an element of, I'd lost myself and I didn't like myself. So the Enneagram is a tool for self understanding and self compassion without putting in the box, right? Because that's what I find when you're talking about Myers Briggs or disc, or some of those other assessments, there's value to them. They nest beautifully under the Enneagram. But there is this like, checklist, off you go, sort of a nature to it, as opposed to, let's really go on this journey. Back to the essence of you back to that higher version of you back to who God created you to be.Unknown:
If somebody were to ask him, How do you like yourself? How would you answer?Juli Wenger:
Yeah. Yeah, I've learned to love me. And that is such a transformative thing. And I see that show up. And this is why part of why we're doing this series is that I've seen that show up in so many people that go on this journey, that it accelerates their self understanding, and their awareness, but also the compassion building. And that's what we need so much of right now. And like my heart just like explodes when I talk about this as a feeler, right, but it's this world that is so divided. needs so much more compassion, and so much more empathy. But until we build it with ourselves, we can't give it to other people. Yeah, that's so true. So the transformation that follows. Let's jump there, you discover this thing, you're sending stuff off to family, you're like, This is me, oh, my goodness, and putting the pieces together, then what?Unknown:
I think there was a long time that I just learned about. I think that is definitely another hindrance of a five as we learn and learn and learn. But the application can be slow, we can move pretty slowly as far as that goes. And so I think the transformation after that, because I've always been a big advocate of counseling, I've been going to counseling, honestly, for probably a decade. I have a background studied it. And so I think for me, the transformation from there it was I felt a little less lonely, because it wasn't like there was something broken within me. And I was able to give myself some more of that compassion of why am I not taking action faster? Why does it take me forever to make a decision? Why is it that I always just call it my flip bite my switch of like, if I was there with you, or if I was turning, turning off the emotion and turning off that connection. And I didn't have control over it. I had control when I turned it off, I did not have control when I turned it back on. And I could feel that shift. And I was finally able to kind of give words to the buckets in the compartmentalization that I'm able to able to do. And honestly, in business, it is really helpful. It helps me to not take things personally, especially in a creative industry. I think it allows me to be able to evaluate rooms and situations and business contacts and conversations since I think there's so many positives about that. But being in control of that is important. And so I try to have more presence and more emotion in my personal relationships, and then maybe I dive into it for a business aspect. It's okay to compartmentalize, maybe it's okay to turn off that emotional knob a little bit. But being able to be in control is probably the biggest transformation that came on the other side of that. And I learned about the Enneagram before the agency started. And I think if that had not happened in that order, there would have been a lot more chaos that happened. Because as you know, being a podcast host and having your own brand. There's a lot of decisions to make during the day, and you don't have the luxury of either of the delayed decision opportunity either. And so I think if I hadn't learned more about myself from an Enneagram perspective, I wouldn't necessarily be nearly as good of a business owner either. So that was probably the biggest thing and it helps me to just not dissociate. quite so much. And for that, I'm grateful. And I think this is a season of my deepest friendships. And I think it's because it's, it's a two way connection. I think fives can give the facade of connection, because we can tell a deep story and the other person like you would be a feeler any will feel everything I'm feeling and maybe like a hard season of life that I'm describing to you. And I can sit over here and just think about it so clinically, and not be moved by it. But I think this is a season that I am so grateful for, because it is the most real connections I've had with people. And I think that's definitely the Lord's doing it the people that he's placed that I feel the most comfortable and safe with. And I think it's also I think it's me being able to go there with them, too. So that's probably the biggest transformation. What aboutJuli Wenger:
your faith relationship? How has the Enneagram and this growth in this development changed your relationship with God?Unknown:
Yeah, it's definitely been, it's been a journey these last few years. For me, I grew up in a Christian household. So it was always interesting after I grew up, and was more on my own in college and things like that, that I continued my faith journey myself, it was through college, I felt like my faith journey became my own natural would be another one of those milestones was moving here. And then it was shortly after I learned about the Enneagram as well. I think you and I have similar viewpoints of obviously, the Enneagram is not inherently a Christ centered tool. But I always try to view everything through a Christ centered lens, whether it's something I'm learning a business, whether it's something that's not it doesn't have the word Christian or Christ, like in front of us, like an adjective of whatever I'm absorbing that I always just like word like, give me give me a standardized give me Holy Spirit eyes, as I'm absorbing this and everything else kind of follow the wayside. I think the biggest thing that the Enneagram has helped me in pact has been impactful with my spiritual relationship with the Lord, is that I'm not broken. Because if I believed that I was broken, because I couldn't connect. I'm actually saying God messed up. And being able to rectify that false theology is important. And it's helpful. I think it's also helped me see others with more Christlike eyes, I always tried to seek to understand more so than seek to be understood. And I can understand others so much better by knowing what their nigrum number is, by understanding what their motivations and their fears are. And I think what Jesus did, he put it all into the full circle and the full picture. And so I think, for me, it helped rectify, I'm not alone. And I'm, there's nothing wrong with me that I'm unable to connect. Or I always told myself, I didn't have the ability to love. Because I would, I just realized I connected with people differently. And so I just thought, my capacity to love others was very limited. But being able to see that that was just kind of sometimes the default of a five but knowing I'm connected to a God of abundance, that was a big thing for me was being able to identify that. So when I feel limited, I feel my energy draining, I remind myself, I'm connected to a God of abundance, I am not limited. And that has helped me to love myself and others better because I don't go into situations just thinking I'm limited, or I want to be drained of energy. So I think it just gave me it just gave me language. And it gave me more. It gave me kind of a different facet of the diamond of all of God's characteristics, and which one would help even out some of the edges of my own diamond that I'm creating in my life to just be more refined. So it just gave me language of what characteristics of God some days, I really needed to hold on to more.Juli Wenger:
I love that about this as a system and as a tool because it really does show us what of his characteristics has He given us to be and to exhibit and what of his talents or his skills or his nature has he specifically placed here. And, I mean, there's so many tangents I could dive off into, we won't get too deep.Unknown:
There was a little bit of like circling there before I really landed onJuli Wenger:
the whole so the book that's not gonna come until like may but I wrote a book, okay, this is probably news too, but I did that amazing. So I'm really excited. But we've been going through the editing and yesterday I was spending some time in the parts about not enoughness, and to muchness and there's so much that you're talking about that are fanatically the same of When we realize that we are created in the image of a God, who is the epitome of enoughness, that we can really lean into this concept of my enoughness is settled. There is no, not enough there is no too much because I mean, he's also the epitome of that. He's big, and he's mighty, and he's loving, and he's abundant. And he's all of these things, right? So it just, there's this freedom that exists when we really start to lean into, okay, he's created me for a particular path to serve particular people. He's assigned me to people he has given me something to accomplish. It's not about me that I can live out this purpose. That's not about me, but it's for me. And that there's nothing that I can do. That is going to make him think less of me love me less love me more, think more of me, right? It's just like it just is. And there was I'm trying to remember where I heard it. I think it was transformation church was listening to one of their podcasts. And they're talking about perfect love. And the definition of perfect or the translation, the word that it actually comes from was completed. And so that there is this perfect love is completed love or it's like it's done. Where it's I love you wholly, completely, totally period. There's no doing there's no worthiness checklist. There's no enoughness checklist. There's none of that. But it's done. And I love you and that's it, period, full stop, we're settled. And because I love you, and because I want you to live a life that you're fired up about, and that's fulfilling for you, and it's full of freedom. Here's this path that you get to go walk. And here's this role that you get to play in showing people love and compassion and creating justice. And that's what really makes my heart happy. So we're gonna not tirade there. ButUnknown:
it's something that remind people I don't ever talk about college. I feel like I brought it up twice today. But I was I was reading a Bible study or in a Bible study in college, and there was a girl, she had just come to pay like just her to think she just become a Christian, like six months prior to that. And she's like, well, if we have so much grace, why can we not just do whatever we want? And it was a very, it felt like to me at the time, like a very elementary question. I was like, Oh, of course, a new Christian would ask that, because it looks so self righteous. But it was still like, it's still a foundational question that we go back to, and I was way wise beyond my years. It's something that I've still convicted of, and I told her I was like, because what an honor it is to be on that journey and partner with God. And that's something I still go back to the house like, wow, I was 20. At the time, I don't think I realized like the impact of my words. But I saw like the look on her face and how profound those words were to her in that moment. But those are things I still go back to to remind myself of things I've said and who I was in that season. And that was really helpful for me. It's like what a journey what an honor, we get to be on this journey along little word to serve and to honor and those people that are placed intentionally in our path which was such a word for me this morning being sometimes in like the stress seven flightiness where just feels like we're kind of fluttering along, settling into the intentionality of places, people and the Lord is orchestrating. He's not, he's not in, he's in control, but He's sovereign. He's, he's not taking away your free will. But he is sovereign. And he is working to our good and others goods at all time. And so yeah, that's always helpful reminder to me, they have the intentionality and what an honor it is to be a part of that intentionalJuli Wenger:
plan to be able to wake up and say, Okay, what are we doing today? Right, where's the next step? And he's given me these kind of visuals of being on this path and there's streetlights and it's like, Okay, now this streetlight is on and this is where we're going next. And I'm not going to give you the long term because you're still gonna be like, Okay, I'll call you, I'm gonna go run with it. Because I am a recovering control, freak. Surprise, but you know, just to be able to say, Okay, I'm going to work on being on the path. That's the goal. I'm just gonna stay on the path. I'm going to stop creating off ramps, I'm going to stop creating detours, I'm going to stop trying to do everything my own way. And instead I'm going to lean into, okay, it's your path. And it's, I mean, it's his energy. Right? And when you're talking about getting depleted, that's something that as a two I experience, as well because I just give, give, give, give, give, give, and you replicating people's emotions, and being able to actually feel what they feel like that is an energy train. So really being able to route into, okay, the energy that I need for the day, he's going to place in me to flow through, but I don't need to personally carry it all. I don't need to put it all on my own shoulders. And that mean that shifts everything. It's an important detail. Yeah,Unknown:
I have a lot of tools in my life. They make me feel very selfish. You have boundaries,Juli Wenger:
I want things to learn from fives. We can learn boundaries from fives. Okay, who's listening? That's this is important. Yes. Any advice or thoughts for people who are starting their journey that might be a five or love a five.Unknown:
I'll break this up into two parts, because I think that might be different. If you're just learning that you're five. And kind of put myself back into that moment when I first first like really sink in and settled in. I think if I was a crier back, then I probably would have cried, I hadn't cried for a very long time. Up until that point, I know, I just cry all the time. So maybe get ready to cry a little bit more, I will say it is it feels scary. But as you expand your emotions, into joy and happiness, and maybe some things that we try to avoid at all costs, the pain and the sorrow and the grief, you will feel more on both ends. But it will make your life so much more rich and full of depth and bond devotee and connectedness to others. And it's worth it on the days where it feels like it's too much. And it feels like a tsunami of emotions and you don't know, it's the first time maybe you're letting people in and their first time you're feeling things. Keep going because it is worth it. The next thing Oh, and don't just learn about it actually apply it. We fives love to learn, but keep going in the feelings aspect of it. And I think I would say the biggest thing to know about a five as people are learning, if they're loving a five or a friend with a five, I just did it, it's a pause, there's usually a pause that we take before we respond. And I know for others, that's very frustrating, because sometimes the person you're speaking with has to sit in the tension of silence or the tension before a thought is completed. As you learn that the person that you are in relationship with friendship or otherwise is a five, I would say give them the space in conversations like this to respond even if it's much more slowly than you would or expect with the rest of the world. It comes from a place of care. And I think sometimes it can be confused with a weakness or like maybe we're thinking about something else. But that pause when we're in relationships and in conversation comes from a place of care so that we can give you the most true and honest and present answer. Even if it feels like anything but that in the moment. It's beautiful.Juli Wenger:
Thank you for doing this with us today.Unknown:
I'm so grateful you would share this has been so much fun. It's beenJuli Wenger:
an honor to have you on I've just like it's like I said at the beginning. It's this fun full circle day of me just feeling really grateful for this whole journey in this process and so to have you on is like gratulationsUnknown:
cool 85 episodes. That is awesome. You've got a book coming out you've got a lot of great things circle around you. I'm so excited.Juli Wenger:
Alright, all my love and Virtual hugs. Until next time, have a good day I hope this episode triggered something in you and got you thinking about your next growth curve. Make sure to check out the show notes for more details and links to resources or people that we've mentioned today. Make sure you hit follow or subscribe and if you have a hot minute will leave an awesome review. I would be so beyond grateful. Until next time, be too much. I dare you