The Enneagram Type 4 with Tricia Chinnici

As you might expect from a type 4, my chat with Tricia gets real deep, real quick. In this episode, Tricia opens up about her how her new identity as a mom sent her on her self discovery journey that led her to the enneagram. Tricia offers some life changing advice for how to live healthfully as a 4 and how to create space for transformation in your life using the enneagram.

MEET TRICIA:

Tricia Chinnici is a business coach for sensitive and creative small business owners, and also the host of her brand new podcast, It's Not Business, It's Personal. Tricia was a creative director in the L.A. corporate world for years before deciding to lean into her Highly Sensitive superpowers and leave the burnout behind. Now as a successful business coach, Tricia's goal is to flip the script on how we talk about business by removing the toxic hustle culture and one-size-fits-all mentality and adding more focus on creativity, fulfillment, authenticity, empathy, and mental health. As an artist, HSP, and Enneagram 4 she truly believes that you don't have to change who you are to be successful, and that your business should work for you. Follow her on Instagram and make sure to check out the new podcast!

Website:  www.triciachinnici.com

Podcast: https://anchor.fm/tricia-chinnici

Instagram: www.instagram.com/tricia.chinnici

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Transcript

Juli Wenger: 0:10

You're on this earth for a purpose. You want to live a life that matters. So let's get through the fear and the overwhelm and all the crap that gets in the way of you living the life of fear for this is the becoming ourselves podcast where we are fired up about you getting clear on who you are, what you're called to and how to get there. Because the world is waiting for you to show up and own your power. I'm your host, Juli Wenger, a coach,a speaker, a Jesus lover in Enneagram, two and a tree shaker. Let's dive into what's keeping you stuck. Because on the other side, is a life that's fired up the film and free.Alright, today on becoming ourselves, I am pumped to continue our Enneagram series we're talking Enneagram for today. With Trisha Kenichi so excited. Yeah. And Trisha is also a coach. So you're gonna get to coach lenses, but two different kinds of feeler types on the podcast today. So let's start here. Can you tell us a little bit about you?

Unknown: 1:17

Absolutely. Yeah, I would love to. So I am Trisha Kenichi, I am a business coach.I specifically work with sensitive and creative small business owners basically other heart centered entrepreneurs like us. Enneagram, two threes and fours are mainly who I tend to work with. And I specifically became a business coach, because when I started my own business,I was doing design and brand strategy. And I was looking for a coach myself. And I saw that all the coaching out there was basically for very specific personality types that were not me. Yeah, at all. Other Other Enneagram you know, and it was like, hustle, and I quit my nine to five, so I could work 24/7 In my business, you know, like all of this rhetoric that was so like, super overwhelming and intimidating for me as a highly sensitive person. And I was like, we need to change this, we need to change the conversation around business. And it's not fair that people like me, don't feel welcome or feel like that.It's like owning a business is something that we could do or something we could handle, just because those people are the loudest. And so that's my goal with my coaching. And I'm launching my own podcast soon,but just trying to flip the script on how we talk about business and allowing more room for sensitivity and empathy, and mental health and art and creativity.

Juli Wenger: 2:34

So it's really good. Yeah, yeah, it's necessary. Because there is I mean, there's kind of a one size fits all mentality of yours,your little box for how to do business or how to do entrepreneurship. And for those of us who maybe don't fit into said box, which is actually probably more of us than we realize that make some people just try to live out that story,right? Live someone else's story, we'll just build a business we were supposed to.And then we hit guess what burnout. So exactly, and we're

Unknown: 3:07

just pretending to be other people. And that's gets exhausting.

Juli Wenger: 3:11

Okay, so this is the perfect tie into type four,because type fours are all about authenticity. So let's just jump here for a hot second for people who maybe aren't super aware of Enneagram types. And maybe they haven't listened to the intro episode yet. So go back and catch that one. But tell us a little bit about fours.

Unknown: 3:30

So the mark of fours, I always feel like the big thing for us is that we have never felt like we are truly seen for who we are. And that might, you know, been something that hit us in childhood. For me, I'm one of four kids. And you know, and I come from a very like math and sciency family, and it's a lot of I was kind of the only like,artsy, fartsy creative kid, you know, like sensitive kid off in my own world. And we're fours that's kind of our thing is that we just never really felt like we've been seen for who we truly are. And so we kind of have spent our lives trying to discover more and more of who we are for ourselves. And then also trying to actually put ourselves out there authentically, and to hold that people actually do start trying to see us for who we really are. But it's like an eternal battle. You know, it's like, we always think that there's something else that we need or something that we're missing. And we're always trying to like dig deeper. And if I can just find the thing, then I'll be successful or like then I'll have the things that I want. And so it's hard to be a former also have we're very emotional, we're in the heart center and heart triad. And so we definitely are ruled by our emotions. We like to do things when we feel like them and not anytime else. So one of the beautiful things about being fours is that we have like a very rich inner world. And because we have always felt so like other and kind of separate from other people we've like really built up our inner imaginations. And so fours tend to be very creative and expressive,especially when we're moving into health and being healthier fours. Worry about To share that, and really beautiful ways,and we really help bring out authenticity and other people and help them actually see them for who they truly are, and make people feel good about being who they really are. And that was one of the like big marks that being a four two is that you can like sit with someone and their emotions and that you don't try to fix them. And that's a really beautiful thing about being a florist. We're very comfortable with emotions and other people's like bad quote unquote, emotions or darker emotions, and we can kind of sit in that darkness.And that's not super uncomfortable for us. Yeah, it's a little bit of foreign and that show

Juli Wenger: 5:31

superpowers right there. Like as a as a to who I mean, the joke that I always hear, and I mean, I'm not one that bakes stuff for people and takes it to them. Okay, like, I just, that's not my Tunis. But I definitely know a lot of tools that are like that. The choke has been the difference between a two and a four is if your puppy dies affordable, come sit with you, and just hold space for you and two will bring you a new puppy.

Unknown: 5:59

Yep, that's that sounds about right.

Juli Wenger: 6:01

Because that's like desire to fix, right? But there is something like I just want to pull out a couple of key points.There is a rebel tendency that often shows up in tight forks.It's like, No, I'm unique. And I'm different and not like anybody else. And your rules don't apply to me. And so like no, but there's also this ability to, because you're searching for the thing that's missing, and you're searching for the beauty. And like, if I could find the beauty in the outside world, then that means that maybe it exists in me too.There's this idealistic tendency, because you're part of the idealist triad, the ones,four sevens, we can see the beauty in the world, which helps the rest of us see the beauty that we would miss. Because we're either not looking for it,or we're moving so fast, that there ain't no time to actually slow down and smell the roses.

Unknown: 6:52

Yes, that's so beautifully said. Yeah, that's an I tend to see in myself too,is just the ability to pause and take in the beauty of a moment.And yeah, and hopefully share that with other people. It's really beautifully said, I hadn't thought

Juli Wenger: 7:06

if I didn't make it all on. I definitely read that somewhere.

Unknown: 7:11

Like, yes, I love that.Yeah, I think that's so true.And I think that's part of why we tend to be more creative too,is that we're trying to like imbue that beauty and like put it back out there in a way that feels authentic to us.

Juli Wenger: 7:24

Okay, so tell me about Trisha discovers the Enneagram. When did this happen?What brought it up for you? What was happening?

Unknown: 7:34

Oh, great questions.Um, so I have a four and a half year old daughter. And so when I had her in 2017, I really struggled with postpartum, I,you know, had postpartum anxiety and depression. And I honestly just kind of hit this, like real identity crisis, becoming a mom,you know, it's like, there's,I'm sure that we all know, and we've experienced it, but that like, you know, you have this kind of loss of identity, and all of a sudden, you're showing up and nobody asks about how you are anymore. Everyone's asking about the baby. And I really,really felt like I kind of lost myself as a new mom. And so one of the things I really started doing, you know, along with meds and you know, working with my professional, you know, we're professional help. I really went on this, like self exploration and self awareness journey, I was like, I need to find then who I am. And so I did a lot of different personality types, I,you know, like, did a lot of different like, exercises, and I took courses and that sort of thing. And then did some inner child work with therapy. And the thing that really hit me the most and made the biggest difference to me was the Enneagram. And I missed type myself at the beginning. And,and so I think I kind of like blew it off for a little bit.And then it was like, the more that I started to read about it,and then when I found four, I was like, holy cow. Like, this is this is me, this is me in a nutshell. And I'd never seen me written back to me before. This is something I say in my coaching, I include the Enneagram in my coaching a lot,and I call it the cast. And like, you know, you found your Enneagram when it just like really hits you in the gut and you're like

Juli Wenger: 9:14

Yeah, exactly. Like if you're really uncomfortable and you're like I don't want this to be my tight but I see myself and we might just be on to something that's probably the one let's slow down and get real serious. Okay, I'm, I am curious, just for like a hot second here. Hmm, what was the initial Miss type?

Unknown: 9:32

I thought it was a six.And I think because I was struggling so much at the time with anxiety that that was the part that I really just kind of like grasped onto and was kind of like Oh, I'm an anxious over thinker. So I'm a six and I think I just leaned into stereotypes a little bit more and then learning that I was like no, I'm just a really unhealthy for Yeah. Took a little while and it takes a while to like really kind of figure that out. And so yeah,I'm I'm a four way Three, like a three wing. And now I yeah, I feel like that describes me really perfectly. And I come from a family of threes. And that was really kind of like hard for me growing up, like I said, I was this like, kind of,you know, the outsider and my family a little bit. And I just thought my whole life that I was a failed three was essentially what I thought that I was just like being three is what we're supposed to be. And I'm just not good at it. And

Juli Wenger: 10:24

the American dream,right, that's the idealized type in Western culture is three,climb achieve, do more be valuable.

Unknown: 10:34

Exactly. And we're so inundated with it and like, and I feel like threes specifically and every type has this, but I feel like three specifically tend to think that this is the,this is the way everyone should be. And it was like very liberating to learn that this is only one of nine personality types, and that I'm not a failed three, I'm before, you know. And it was like that was really,really liberating for me to finally have a little bit of permission to be more of myself.And that's the Enneagram did for me

Juli Wenger: 11:04

permission to be yourself. This is one of the most powerful pieces of the Enneagram. And this is why we both use it in work is the the progression it gives people to stop trying to be something else and stop trying to live someone else's story. And to really embrace okay, this is how I'm wired. This is how I see the world. Here's my superpowers.Here's my kryptonite. It's here's how I'm going to move forward. And I mean, there's a tension too. So this is interesting between three and four. Because fours are all about authenticity, and threes.Kryptonite is self deceit. So talk to me about living in that tension between those spaces.

Unknown: 11:48

Oh, for me, it ended up showing up a lot as performing.Like, I feel like I just played other parts my whole life growing up, like I was just pretending to be other people.And like I even think back to different situations. And I would just put on the exact right outfit. Like I didn't really have a set style for myself, I would just put on whatever I deemed to be appropriate. What would the character were who's playing this part right now. And it went and it literally went into me acting like I became a performer. I was a theater major in college. And I think it was just because that's where I was the most comfortable was being anybody but me. Yeah. And I that's I feel like how it manifested is like I could just pretend to be a successful person, I could pretend to be a three really well. But you know,also getting panic attacks. Like slightly dying on me. And so, so we like, yeah, it was like a really, really, it took honestly, I think until my like late 20s and 30s. To really actually figure out who I was.And like same thing to have that permission to not have to be a three was just a game changer.

Juli Wenger: 12:56

So some of that starts to shift, you start to learn who you are, you start to come back to yourself. So what have you learned about who you are now? Like, how do you see yourself now?

Unknown: 13:13

That's a great question. I love that it's a four, I'm just I'm dying for that question.

Juli Wenger: 13:17

I'm just gonna not die in the next 32 minutes because I click okay. No, I,

Unknown: 13:28

the biggest thing. So learning I was an Enneagram four. And then also for me was learning that I'm a highly sensitive person, those have been kind of the two biggest things for me that have really helped me learn how to be me a little bit more. And then also doing a lot of inner child work has been huge for me too. And so I feel like yeah, I feel like I have always had these kind of, I mean, the superpowers like these incredible superpowers that Enneagram fours have that highly sensitive people have. And I always thought of them as weaknesses. And I feel like I'm really just starting to think of them as strengths, you know, the idea that I can like sit and other people's emotions and that I feel them and when they cry, I cry, you know, and I can actually like feel that and take that on and I used to do that in a really unhealthy way. And now I'm learning how to do that in a more healthy way. You know, and that's one of the things that I love about being a coach is that I get to do that in a way that feels wonderful and rewarding for me. And and so I think that has been a huge shift. And then also one of the big things too has been just learning how to work with my emotions and work with my energy. And that is really hard as a floor we have very strong emotions and things just we have to process a little bit more we need more downtime,we need more introspection time and allowing myself to take that and not thinking of it as a failure or a non productive you know, I like it my three nature like being raised as a three I still think of anything that's like not super productive as a waste of time, you know, and so it's been allowing myself to take and not know that it's not a waste of time, because it will actually help me be you know,like, show up the way that I want to in the world I need to take this time. And so it's been Yeah, learning how to work with who I am, and work with my energy. And that's something that I've worked with to my business is this something I recommend for all business owners and I work with with my clients is the idea of like,call it like an energetic cadence? But like, where do you when do you feel like doing the things we have a hard time doing things when we don't feel like doing it? So how can we set it up? So that way you are doing the things when you feel like doing? You know? And so are you a morning person or anything person? Are you a earlier in the week? Are you later in the week?Like can you do creative things and analytical things on the same day? Or do you need to break those up and have creative days and analytical days? And so I think that's something that fours really need to work on and work with. And that's something I've learned for myself is,yeah, not to fight it. Or to be surprised when we do you end up having emotional reactions to things. It's like being able to learn how to anticipate and work with it.

Juli Wenger: 15:59

Yeah, there's a something that I've heard about four is that it's not that you have emotions, it's that you are your emotions. Yep. So part of the challenge that comes from an identity perspective is that force can actually struggle.Well, who am I because your identity is shifting all the time as your emotions shift. So there's a there's a challenge there and really being able to read it really

Unknown: 16:25

speaks to me. Yeah,yes. Oh, my gosh, specifically,rooting and grounding that is so interesting. And that's something I've currently been working on, is that idea of really grounding. Like, my life shifted a lot. Last year, my dad passed away, and I got divorced in one year. So that's super fun. And so I really have felt just kind of like up in the air,you know. And so that's something that like, especially as a four, it's like, yeah, I'm really working on trying to build roots and like ground and get more solidified in who I am and what I bring, you know, and it's really helped increase my self awareness and self love.

Juli Wenger: 17:02

So do you know what your subtype is?

Unknown: 17:05

Um, I go back and forth. And so I don't feel like I tend to live in one and maybe that's the foreignness is that I don't like and like those don't identify me. But I usually tend to identify with the, the social,

Juli Wenger: 17:20

okay, that's, that would be my guest. But that could also just be that you're in an emotion that is more excitable today. And tomorrow,you could feel very melancholy.And I might play it differently.Right? And I mean, here's the interesting thing for people who are like, Okay, what is she talking about now? Okay. So we talked about this a little bit in the intro episode, but every type structure has wings, they have stress and resource numbers, they have growth numbers, and they have three subtypes. So in essence, it's more like there's 118 types than nine. Yes. So congratulations,we're not putting anybody in a box. So subtypes. There's the kind of like social interaction,gauging the bigger groups typically a little higher energy types. There's these one to one or we call them sexual.Sometimes I like the one to one language better, because some of the Enneagram language is really weird and old school and some of its churchy. And I'm just like,I love Jesus. But yeah, not little, like religious, weird structure anyway. So there's this one to one that's very much like intense one on one kind of connection. And then there's self preservation that is all about how do I stay safe? So each of these types, these nine types have each of the subtypes.But the thing is, you don't just have one, like they stack. And it can kind of shift. Yeah. So what will be interesting is that as people are listening to this,and as they're going, Okay, do I identify with this type? Or who do I know that might be that type? You could get three different fours, especially fours. Okay, let's just throw the three different fours on the podcast, and they will all have very different energy. And like,they would seem very unique and maybe like they're not wired the same in some capacity. Yes.

Unknown: 19:08

And fours get easily mistyped because of that, too.

Juli Wenger: 19:11

Oh, yeah. Mm hmm.Yeah, the behavioral piece like,and this is why it's such an important personal journey. And this is actually an interesting episode to talk about this on.We don't type other people. Yes,because we can't see the inner landscape we can't understand for them, what are their fears?What are the things they want,right? Like, when we look at type four, and there being a fear of, you know, like,rejection and not fitting and something missing? And, like there's this need for authenticity and beauty and belonging, and there's other types that might behaviorally look similar. Plus, we pick up behavioral patterns from just learned experience. So I have a lot of type nine patterns,because I'm pretty sure my dad's a nine, and I'm not nine. But you know, in some days, maybe a good mistake there, right? So just recognizing that everyone has all of these different combinations of outward appearing things, but inside,it's like, what are the drivers inside? What are the needs?Yeah. And

Unknown: 20:26

I feel like we tend to lean as humans, we like to put things into categories and things into boxes, you know,it's like, our brains just naturally do it. But I think with the Enneagram, it turns into these like stereotypes, and it's just like, well, if you're creative, or super sensitive,then you're just automatically afore, you know, and it's like,there's sensitivity and creativity within every single type, you know, and so I think that, yeah, we tend to, if we,when we type other people it's on such as such a surface level,that doesn't actually tell us who they are, what they were,how they're motivated. Yeah.

Juli Wenger: 20:57

Well, and as I mean, quote, unquote, experts,okay, because you could study this thing for your whole life,right? But yeah, as someone personally who's over 100 hours of formal training into this, I still miss type people. Okay,this is like, this is not a you just go take a bunch of training, or you read a few books, and it's like, I got everyone pick. Now there are some people that are easier to nail down type. And there are some people that like it's a process. So well, am I this or this and you have to factor in all these different layers and exploration. And it's like, we finally land somewhere, we think, but we don't want to buy into or have someone else buy into something that's not there.So when you talk about this initial Miss type as a six, I'd look at the risks of what happens for you. If you continue going about your life thinking you're a six, and basing your decisions off of what are my superpowers and kryptonite of a type. It's not actually your hearse. Yeah,

Unknown: 21:55

absolutely. And I think it's so important, like, you know, as coaches and that we take advice from people who have similar motivations to us. Like,I think it's really important to find leaders and mentors and stuff that are your Enneagram type, or at least close to it.Because yeah, you end up listening to all this advice,that doesn't work for you, you know, and I feel like I would have been very frustrated, you know, and constantly preparing for problems that wouldn't actually arise and then confused about where all my emotions were coming from and think I would,it would lead me to be more confused and know less about myself, then. Yeah, then finding the right type, which actually is transformational.

Juli Wenger: 22:38

Mm hmm. There's something detrimental there.Right. Yeah. And

Unknown: 22:43

it's like, when it's not transformational for you,it's probably because your mistake, like if the, the Enneagram hasn't worked for you,then you probably didn't find your type.

Juli Wenger: 22:51

Yeah, or armored up so fast that because there's work that has to come and the Enneagram is really good at pointing out the crappy parts of our personality, you have to be ready be like I always warn people, like just take a deep breath. This whole like there's a subtype thing that I really love using from Dr. Beatrice chestnuts, book, books, slash textbook, this thing is like university level, you got to dig into it. Right?

Unknown: 23:16

I was very impressed that you've read that because Oh, my gosh,

Juli Wenger: 23:19

I have not finished it, I'm going to just out myself, I have not finished it.But in the first 25 pages of the book there is you like spit out your drink. But there is this really beautiful overview of all of the different subtypes of what they look like, but the language Oh, my goodness, it is like just just know that if you had to pre frame for people,it's dense and it's negative,it's largely negative. And so you have to be open to exploring the, you know, the shadows and the parts of yourself that you've tried to burry because they seem unacceptable. And and that really, that openness is what creates the space for transformation, with this kind of a tool of really being able to say, Okay, I'm going to actually deal with the root stuff. And it's amazing how you probably see this too with like,regardless of what types because there's actually a lot of variety that I see but I think that when you find people like in terms of coaches and mentors,they get your type that have a you know, an understanding or an education around some of the different structures and they can at least be empathetic about it and understanding of it like that makes a difference. But the the freedom and the transformation for people when they're like okay, I'm actually going to dig into this I'm actually going to actually Splore those things because otherwise I'm going to stay stuck. Otherwise, I'm going to keep rolling back the same thing. But it's like everything routes backs, like for type two,where it's shame and rejection.Right? It's like, I can look at all of my patterns, all of them.And I can roll it back to that.All right, where am I worried about being rejected right now?Where am I worried about not being worthy of love right now?That's it, that's always the route, always. It kind of simplifies things.

Unknown: 25:34

He really does it. I mean, like, it's hard, I think to with the Enneagram, because it all stems from like childhood wounds, you know, it stems from like, things that we suffered in childhood, even if we had very idyllic like happy childhoods,they're still wounds, you know,there's still things that we had to adapt to, or we learned behavioral patterns, because of the Enneagram can really call those out, which can be really triggering, you know, it's, it's really wonderful once we can work with it, and start to embrace it, and like, work with those inner children and really try to give them the love and what we thought we were missing as kids. It's like, that's our job now is like to give those to our inner children to ourselves.But it's really hard to learn that sometimes and face that,you know. And so yeah, like the Enneagram gets gets deep, real fast. And so you have to be ready for it before is we're built for this stuff, like we are built for this. This is introspection, it's dark, where we're all about it. Right? I mean, that's been training for this our whole lives.

Juli Wenger: 26:36

You just nailed it.So anyone who wanted to get for just wind back 15 seconds, and there you go. Okay, so if you were talking to foreigners, who are just learning about their type, who are just starting to explore this whole process in the system? What advice or words of wisdom do you have for them?

Unknown: 27:02

Oh, four, I would say so I'm trying to think to what I would be telling myself a few years ago. And I think that I will say I do think fours are often how you say there's a lot of negativity involved in it.And I do think a lot of the descriptions that I see about fours are very negative, or feel, you know, as a sensitive person, they feel more negative.And I think that it's looking beyond what, you know, a lot of,you know, websites and experts try to type fours as and diving more into the beauty of being a four. And I think that, you know, we're just described as like, highly emotional, and dramatic and artsy. You know,and it's like, that is just such a

Juli Wenger: 27:50

surface exhausting that comes up in the literature too, because it's like all of the recounting of past experiences, and storytelling and whatever, like, for some types are just like, can't hold space for those right now. And I think there's something there,right, and expecting other people to be able to function in the same capacity that for any type, the same capacity that we do. Sorry, I just wanted to do,

Unknown: 28:13

yes, no, it's so true.And it's like allowing yourself to be different than other people and allowing yourself to know that you need things that other people don't need, or that they need other things that you don't need. And that's okay. And I think for for us, too, we tend to jump into other personalities, especially when we're feeling uncomfortable with ourselves or we don't quite know who we are yet, we just tend to pretend. And so I think that as advice to someone who's just discovering their four is to really dive into your past and your childhood and what you needed then and who you were then as opposed to this maybe facade that you've built up for who you are now. And so allowing yourself to get deeper and as a four Hopefully that's not too much of a problem and enjoy it like enjoy the process and the self introspection and something allowing yourself to find that beauty the beauty of being afore that sensitivity that empathy,the way that we I feel like we can connect with people and in ways that no one else can we can we see beauty and we see possibility that no one else can we see potential and everything,it's part of why we're perpetually disappointed is because we really see how wonderful things could be we have these imaginations and we like build up these like great worlds of these dreams. And, and then you know, 99% of the time,life doesn't actually live up to what we had built up in our hands. But it's like that the ability to do that is is astounding and amazing and beautiful. And so I think that that is probably the biggest advice I would give to someone who's just discovering the Enneagram is to find the beauty in it and find the beauty in yourself and and then know that it's gonna be hard You know,know, know that there's going to be some stuff to work through,and there's going to be some stuff you have to face. But the other side of it is so worth it.It's so worth it and like being able to see yourself for who you truly are, is hard. And, you know, we have to like confront things that we've done, we have to confront decisions we've made, we have to confront people we've hurt, you know, and that is really hard to look at. And I think the Enneagram forces that into us a little bit. But the other side of that, once you are able to embrace that part is when you can learn to forgive yourself. And that's a whole new level of like self awareness and self care and self love. That is Yeah, so worth it. Like the journey, the Enneagram journey is so so worth it. And so it's just pushing through those hard times to get there.

Juli Wenger: 30:45

It sounds like freedom. Yes, yeah. It's

Unknown: 30:49

crazy. It's crazy.Like, I always kind of thought of myself as a self aware person. And then coming into this journey and realizing how little I actually knew about myself. And I was still surprising myself all the time,I'd be like, Why did I react that way? You know, and like, we live our lives, like, without any awareness of the reason why we do the things that we do. And especially, you know, I was I lean a lot into, like people pleasing. I don't know, I don't know the to if you identify with that, but

Juli Wenger: 31:16

Oh, not at all.

Unknown: 31:19

Not Not even a little bit wet. No. And like and fours go to two. I like like, that's our, like fours go to two when we're feeling unhealthy. Like,like, that's our stress line is going into too. And so when we're feeling unhealthy, we tend to go into people pleasing, and we get really needy and need a lot of validation and

Juli Wenger: 31:37

see, yeah, whoa,yes.

Unknown: 31:41

Yeah, but it's like,but once you're able to acknowledge and like, notice,when those things are happening,now you can start to catch it.And it's just Yeah, same thing.It's like that level of self awareness is everything. Like it really just,

Juli Wenger: 31:53

and I'm so grateful for my healthy line of four,because it's the flip, right?And so like when I'm doing really well, and this was part of actually what helps me nail down type, because I also wing very heavy three. And it was the Oh, right, when I'm really healthy when I am spiritually in recovery, like all of that stuff. That's when I'm singing and songwriting. I'm in my garden, you know, like, it's all of these creative things that are for me, and not for everybody else. So there's some really beautiful interplays that run both ways. Yes. And just to touch on, like growth space of type one of this. It's like idealism overlapped with more idealism, which is kind of fun.But the doing and the Getting Things Done, and seeing that rules actually has some value and structure has some value.And yeah, it's just fascinating collection of capacities.

Unknown: 32:50

Yeah, I think it's the beautiful part about the Enneagram is that yeah, it's not going to tell you like what kind of cocktail you order at a bar,like, it's going to tell you like, why you choose your partners and like, why you like it, you're in the careers that you are. And so yeah, it's actually like a life tool. And it just helps you like this is my saying, in my business is that like, your business should work for you. Like, your business should work for who you are, like, you don't have to keep working to, like, you know,create this business that's going but you have to keep having to do the work for it has to work for you. And I think the Enneagram helps you build a life that works for you. You know,and it's like, we keep trying to build our lives the way that other people tell us to. And the way that we see that works for other people and how the Enneagram actually, like teaches you gives you the tools and the steps to create a life that actually works for you specifically. And I love that you mentioned that about fours going into type one when we're in health, because I think that that is the hardest part about being a four is moving into action. You know, we're dreamers, and not doers. And we're with drawers, you know, we are in the withdrawing stance,like we tend to just like kind of shy away and hide away from problems. And we have this perpetual like wanting to be seen and not wanting to be seen and wanting to be seen and not wanting to be seen. And so when we're like really leaning into that type one, it's like we're actually, you know, like for fours, it's super important to build habits, you know, like, we tend to only do things when we feel in the mood for them, which can strike at any point and it's unpredictable. And so it's like we need to learn how to do things that are good for us,without even thinking about it without even having to feel like am I do I feel like journaling today or do I feel like exercising today? Like our goal is to get to where we're doing these things without having to overthink it. And that is Yeah,part of that that growth line of type ones is setting up Yeah,setting, setting ourselves up for success.

Juli Wenger: 34:38

Thank you, Trisha.Absolutely.

Unknown: 34:40

Yay. So I loved doing this with you, Julie, thank you so much for having me. No one wants to follow me further. I'm on Instagram, Trisha ki Nietzsche, and then my podcast is launching next week. And it is called it's not business.It's personal. And we'll be dealing with some Enneagram on there as well but it's specifically for sensitive and crazy have small business owners. And so there's gonna be a lot of poetry and spoken word and music. And so it's basically the ultimate podcast for Enneagram fours. So if you identified with this, please come join me in our Enneagram four lives and community together.

Juli Wenger: 35:15

Sounds amazing. And we'll make sure to put some show note links to all of that for you. Yeah, beautiful. Well, I'm so glad that we could do this today and that you could join me and that all of you could learn about for and hopefully leave us with more. Thanks so much for listening I hope this episode triggered something in you and got you thinking about your next growth curve. Make sure to check out the show notes for more details and links to resources or people that we've mentioned today. And make sure you hit follow or subscribe. And if you have a hot minute, we'll leave an awesome review. I would be so beyond grateful. Until next time, be too much. I dare you