The Enneagram Type 3 with Emily Rayburn

Hey Acheivers! We're coming for you and your emotions in an honest and candid chat with my friend, and fellow Enneagram Coach, Emily Rayburn. What does life as a 3 look like? Listen in and find out! We're diving into everything from perception management to perfectionism to being present and learning to rest.

MEET EMILY:
Emily Rayburn is a Certified Coach and Enneagram Practitioner who is passionate about helping couples understand themselves and each other better.  Through her real-life examples of the transformation of her own marriage, Emily teaches practical ways to apply the Enneagram to everyday life and relationships. She has been married to her wonderful partner for 16 years and they have 3 school-age children.  When she's not coaching couples or homeschooling her children, Emily enjoys gardening and backyard chicken keeping on their small acreage in beautiful Colorado.  

 www.emilyrayburn.com

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Transcript

Juli Wenger: 0:10

You're on this earth for a purpose. You want to live a life that matters. So let's get through the fear and the overwhelm and all the crap that gets in the way of you living the life of fear for this is the becoming ourselves podcast where we are fired up about you getting clear on who you are, what you're called to,and how to get there. Because the world is waiting for you to show up and own your power. I'm your host, Juli Wenger, a coach,a speaker, a Jesus lover in Enneagram, two, and a tree shaker. Let's dive into what's keeping you stuck. Because on the other side, is a life that's fired up the film, and free.Alright, today on the podcast,we are continuing the Enneagram series, I am really thrilled because today on the podcast is Emily Rayburn, Emily and I went through coach school together,Emily and I both trained at the narrative Enneagram in terms of our actual Enneagram training,she's gone all the way through the certification process. And she has a wealth of knowledge about this. She's also a type three. So we're going to talk to Emily today about life as a story. what that's like. So,welcome to the podcast.

Unknown: 1:27

Thanks, Julie. I'm really excited to be here,

Juli Wenger: 1:29

we're gonna have fun, we'll be like a little catch up session. Okay, so let's throw back to type three basics.Let's start there, because I know not everyone has listened to the intro episode. If you haven't listened to the intro episode, stay close to the end drops out. Because it'll give you a bit of a framework for the whole system that said, as a three, tell us about threes,

Unknown: 1:54

okay, so threes. It's the basic, you know, proposition for threes are the basic thing that threes function off of when we're in our ego structure is to be valued for what we do, how we perform what we achieve, we take a lot of our desire for connection, his heart types,this route of, well, if I'm admired if the work I do is wonderful and spectacular, then clearly that makes me valuable and worthy of love from other people. Right? And so in this process of that, threes are typically very, you know, type a kind of driven, not always,there's a lot of nuance at any type, right? Like, we know that like, there's no, we're not putting ourselves into boxes here. But you know, we get stuff done, we really do. We're good at it. And when we are good at something, we notice that and we notice how other people notice that even more importantly,yeah. And when we get that other people noticing it, it's like,Oh, I'm gonna keep doing this,right? Because that's how we kind of make ourselves feel like we're worthy of love. When we're operating out of our type structure, of course,

Juli Wenger: 2:57

yeah. So what about here to talk about a little bit of the what's the best part, or a superpower of a three?

Unknown: 3:06

So I think this will vary somewhat amongst three. So speaking for me personally,because I don't know if you've talked a lot about subtypes or instincts like it eensy weensy?Yeah, a little bit. So three different types of every types.Essentially, this is like getting past Enneagram 101. So,you know, we'll keep it simple.But basically, I'm a self preservation three. And so it looks different from some other three. So I would say for me, my superpower is like my organizational skills and the fact that I get stuff done, like I can really power through,like, set a goal, nail it, set a goal and nail it. And I think most threes will relate to that.I think you also know some threes might also say that their superpower is sort of this chameleon like ability to convert ourselves into what is successful depending on like,where we're at, like so we're very flexible. We're very good at reading rooms. And knowing what we need to be in that room in order to get kind of that in the goal of the three which is that validation that were worthwhile that were valuable.

Juli Wenger: 4:09

Okay, so superpowers the get stuff done this chameleon nature, this organizational skill. Tell us a little bit about how that's also tied to the things that can take you out.

Unknown: 4:23

Oh, well, I mean, let's just say burnout. Like probably top thing for most threes is burnout. You know, we we tend we go into that nine space and stress. And so we can tend to really just be done. Like that's how I describe it. That's how when I talk to I have a really dear friend who's a three, we are just when we're done, we are done. Like there's no sort of medium ground when we are really living in our type structure. We are either on fire, giving it like 150% or we are checked out and you know, like for me souci in the bathtub with my wine and the door shut and being like,everybody leaves me alone, I'm done. So that can take us out,we can overdo. And I think the other thing that you know, on a deeper level, and really getting to the heart of why the Enneagram is so helpful and why we do this work. You know, we don't value ourselves, here we are going through the world looking for value looking for validation, looking to be worthy. And we don't often find it in ourselves, we don't find our authentic our authenticity very easily. And yet, it's like deep down, obviously, what, you know, it's something that all humans are after, and certainly right up front and center for threes.

Juli Wenger: 5:41

There's a attending to, or trending towards the, how do I prove my enoughness? How do I prove my value? How do I prove my worth? And one of the things that I've heard about three is,and I can relate to this,because I have such a strong three wing? Is this, if I take the masks off, because there's all this chameleon thing and shifting? And how do I be what I need to be to be successful or to be viewed as successful?Because all heart types are perception management? Right?We're in that How am I perceived? And how do I maintain a particular image? How do I manage how people see me? If I take all the masks off, then what's left? And there can be like this identity crisis that exists if I don't know who I am outside of all of this achieving, and being all of these things to all of these people.

Unknown: 6:37

Yeah, absolutely. This this, it's really terrifying.Honestly, when you get to a for any type, when you get down to the real center of what's going on, and why you're doing the things you're doing, because of the the ego structure and the personality all around it. I mean, it's terrifying for any of us. And for threes, it is not just terrifying to take off the masks and be like, Will I still be be loved? Will I still be valuable people? But like, Will I even like the person that's there underneath will I enjoy even recognize this person that is there underneath which for me, called try not to like cry,even as I talk about it is the scariest part, right? It's like,we when we talk about sort of that shame that goes with the heart types and that and that grief, you know, I really relate to the term grief a lot, because the grief is there. Because, you know, I'm a few years out from40. So like, I've lived a fair amount of life now. And I would say only since I've met the Enneagram have I felt brave enough to look inside and see who was really there. And there's a grief that it took me,you know, essentially close to half my life more than likely to embrace that person and to let her be there. So there's a lot of grief that goes along with a lot of I think, a ton of mourning that goes along with doing Enneagram work for the three I think that that can look very much like mourning, you know, it could have been more real and more authentic instead of just manufacturing. What what was working what seemed to be what everybody wanted, and what you were getting validation for.

Juli Wenger: 8:06

Yeah, and you're dealing with is three because three is the type that's like,I'm gonna just stuff the emotions, because I don't have time for the emotions, because I'm doing and I'm achieving. And I'm getting this hit of proof that I'm valuable. And I don't remember if I mentioned it in the intro episode, but it's like this mountain of emotional baggage. And it can only build for so long before it's like there's a big old rock slide and the mountain starts to crumble.And then I mean, what I see in my work. And I'm sure that you see this too is like people that are just running from the landslide instead of starting to experience the emotions that have been stuffed away. So when you talk about all of that grief, there's something that I think is really unique to a type three in terms of what that looks like to come to terms with there's all of this emotion and all of these memories and experiences and things that I've just kind of tabled for later but never gotten to and the challenges that can feel like way too much. And then we end up with midlife crisis and grid sports cars and all kinds of distraction.

Unknown: 9:24

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.And that's the thing with threes, too is often it will very much look like like if you have a three in your life. And again, this isn't, you know,across the board, there are nuances of course, but we don't show that we're falling apart like that is absolutely terrifying. Like there you are going to look at this person and say she has it all together. I remember when I was doing my narrative training and I was on so we do training and panels as you know, as you know, so like all the threes get up and we're gonna interview all the threes and that's how we learn from each other just just like we're doing now, sharing the experience as a three and how I live that. And I remember Peter Henrion, who's one of our instructors there. So I'm, uh,I'm actually going to stay at home mom for many years, which was a part of why it was hard for me to identify as a three at first. Because that's not something that is viewed as very successful or driven a lot of times in our culture. And so I was like, I can't be a three because like, I'm not killing it in a job, because I'm not, you know, and I shared about this on that panel. And Peter looked at me, and he said, but I bet you're supermom. And I was like,so called out in that moment,was like, you know, you don't know me, like, stop it. And I was like, Absolutely,absolutely. I would view myself more as like a home administrator, almost sometimes,like, this thing runs like a well oiled machine. And my friends come over and my house is together. And, you know, they see again, as they see that picture of what looks like the perfect supermom, yeah, of course, that's not real for anyone, it's unattainable. But you know, I'd even go so far as to do fent. Like little things like, you know, and this is part of the self preservation three part, but like, it's like vain about not appearing vain. So like, if you came over and complimented me on how great my house looks, I'd be like, Oh,no, not really see, look,there's some dishes in the sink.And like, I'd intentionally leave a few dishes in the sink.Or I'd leave a laundry basket of folded clothes that weren't put away always folded, because it's like, unfolded be a little too much. So you know, yeah, a little bit. Just that little bit of like, no, no, see, and it's but it's all again, it's a performance, right? So the threes performers is another name for us. And it is it's like constantly sort of living that performance. But I think it's important to note too, that,like, Yes, I thought through leaving a few dishes in the sink, but my mind said that was to make my friends feel better.Because I had gone to their houses, and they had dishes and they're seeing, right, so it's still like a heart type and connection. This isn't like some sort of, you know, I don't sit around and like masterplan, how to deceive people, because ultimately, I'm deceiving myself, you know, this is who I am? Well, that's

Juli Wenger: 11:54

the really fundamental part, right? Is all of this is until we become aware of it, which is the power of a system like this. It's all subconscious, right? And we have no idea that we're doing it and it feels like it's legitimate,it feels like it's strength, it feels like it's authentic, it feels like it's caring. And when we start to understand, Oh, I do this, because I am trying to control how other people view me. And I think we talked about this a little in the type two interview with Shirley that when I was trying to evaluate my wing, I was like, good. I know,there's a lot of perfectionism in me. But when I was listening to the three panel, the way that they talked about perfectionism,and it as a tool to manage how they're perceived was, like,nail me to the wall right there.Because it's, I mean, it's that same thing of how, how do I make sure that when people come over,or they drive by, or they look at my Instagram feed, or they that I am seeing a particular way? And I mean, that's exhausting. But until we have the awareness of it, we can't change it. Yeah,

Unknown: 13:10

exactly. And I love how the Enneagram helps us. So I mean, I bet you there is a, you know, a person out there listening to this of every different types that can relate to that, right? Like, it's that is not exclusive to twos or threes, you know, can sound very one ish the way you're talking.But what I find so interesting and compelling and helpful,frankly, about the Enneagram is,it's like, Okay, but why are you doing that? Because I bet the reason why you're why the control of that is important to you is different, how that control is important to me versus a seven or an eight or you know, any type. And I that that's why I find this work to be so helpful for understanding yourself and getting out of those patterns and waking up to those subconscious behaviors.

Juli Wenger: 13:54

So in your journey,where were you when you discovered this whole system?

Unknown: 14:00

Yeah, so I really I think about this all the time,because I get asked this question, when I'm talking to people about the Enneagram. And I'm like, How long has it been now? I think it's been five or six years since I started, just like dabbling in this Enneagram thing, right? I just, it just fell in my lap. And I think most people find that the Enneagram finds them as opposed to them finding the Enneagram Yep. And I feel like that's true. I feel like I was in a place of really wanting to understand better who I was, as I mentioned, I've been a stay at home parent. I was exclusively a stay at home parent for like a decade. And as a three that had had a lot of like, mind messing with me because I didn't feel very valuable because people didn't see what I was doing as a mom home with little kids, right.And so that's really difficult.That's why it was so important when people did come over that I was perceived as having it all together. But also authentically. There's always been a part of me that needs a little something else which Now I'm in the coaching work. And that's really how I found it was through the Enneagram. Because I hired a coach to kind of help me work through exactly what I was going through, like, do I want to go Go work outside of the home, now the kids are getting older, what is the next step for me in my in my path. And that's really when I found the Enneagram. And understanding my type structure, as I was working through that process with my coach, she actually wasn't in any agreement formed coach, but the fact that I was doing that work simultaneously, you know,just reading books and consuming information about the Enneagram just, I think, really accelerated that coaching process for me and help me get unstuck really well. And I was like, actually, hey, why don't I just coach like, this sounds great. And why don't I use the Enneagram in my coaching, and,but more so than that, you know,it just it's changed my life,changed my marriage, changed my parenting, changed my relationship with God, like it just, it's all integrated,right? It doesn't touch one part of you. And that's the point of the work because we all have this belongs, it's all integrated. It's all a part of us

Juli Wenger: 16:04

that just everyone back up 30 seconds and your little button and listen to that, again, because this is I think this is where we were just going to coach to coach talk here for a minute. This is where we as society missed the mark.So often, as we try to put people into their little boxes of here's a different parts of your life, let's handle them all separately. But ultimately, both from a coaching perspective, and I'd say also, as a, you know,women of faith perspective, we see how everything impacts everything else. And everything is connected, and the challenges that we're facing in one area of life, impact how we show up in a different space. And our patterns impact how we show up in every space, and how we perceive the world, all of it.So there isn't a weekend just detach part of us from the rest of us. And just work on that. I mean, there's a there's a value to focus, right? So your work with couples, and focusing in on how do they communicate better?How do they connect better? How do they come back together?Because there's so much of this kind of like moving away from each other, and then choosing to come back together, as we grow.And as we shift. And as we really settle into relationships. I don't we've seen that we've been married since we were 20. Like, I look back at that, I'm like, what,that was crazy, like, we have changed so much. And I mean, I agree with you a wholeheartedly.It has shifted the foundational dynamics of our relationship,and not even dependent on the partner doing the work, but just based on me doing my own work.And then it just, you know,complements when you get both people in. So looking at people holistically like that is that's the key. That's kind of the secret sauce. Right?

Unknown: 18:09

Yeah, I think it has to be in the end, you know, even like looking at that from the perspective of being someone who is a believer in God. Like, I mean, it's a trinity. Right? So it's, it's a trinity, there's three parts that are one. And so that's set as an example for us to follow and to say, hey, we've got to use all the parts.

Juli Wenger: 18:30

Yeah, I think that the, the bringing together of multiple pieces and the oneness of them. And actually, that makes me think about the the goal of this as a system. And I think it's one of the reasons that I love the narrative training so much is looking at how we are not our type, but we have type. And that when we do the work to detach from in the threes case, the over attachment to achieving the seeing your value from outside in of I need other people to tell me enough versus the I'm enough because I exist versus the more the because I exist, there is a move, they call it a move towards the middle, right? Where it's like we become more more connected with God's essence, we become more reflective of the virtue of our type, which I didn't get into in the intro,but like what is the best of us?What is the thing that God's put in us that we reflect out to the world and that's different for each type, but then we all kind of like tied together and we can all pull from a lot of the other spaces. And so it's really not limiting. But it's this moving towards each other and this compassion building and ultimately, there's like a unity that can exist and we're all doing this kind of work.

Unknown: 19:57

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's, you know, the The Hope and doing the sort of work and helping people get unstuck,helping them build better relationships. And along all of that just doing my own work, you know, like it's, it's you can't take people farther than you go yourself. I think anyone in sort of a helping profession knows that, and so is continually pushing like myself to see it's gonna sound so three do better and be better, right? And that's actually not it, it's continuing to challenge myself to actually step back from a lot of that and just really be present with myself and where I am right now.And what's going on right now and noticing what's going on in my body, what's going on in my emotions? It's just a whole different ballgame. I can't really say it's like, being better necessarily. It's just being more centered, grounded,more authentic, more honest.

Juli Wenger: 20:56

And that's what reflects, I would say, the the healthiest space or the growth of your type structure, right?Is that focus on being on being present versus doing? And maybe let's touch a little bit on some of the connected structures there, because it's a beautiful tie in of how do you how do wings show up for you? How do stress and resource numbers and growth numbers and those connections show up for you?

Unknown: 21:24

So I just start with wings, you said that first when you get into wings, theories,and you're talking to Enneagram,nerds, you know, everybody kind of has some different perspectives on wings. And some people are, they find it really helpful to say, you know, I have this swinger that wing. I'm a little more the school of thought, personally, that, you know, we both that Well, I think everybody knows, like, you do have both wings, like, it's just, that's the way the system works, right? Like you have a type, there's a type on either side. So those are your wings, I kind of think we tend to lean more into wings, depending on what's going on in life. And so I feel like, sometimes I have a lean into two, and sometimes I lean into four, I think leaning into twos been very helpful in my motherhood, I mean, you know,seeing what people need, taking care of meeting those needs, you know, little people have lots of needs. So there's a lot of that.I'm very, like interpersonal. So I think there's a lot of to that, that I draw, you know, I can draw that from there. I always talk about wings is like,you know, when you need to go borrow, like a cup of sugar from your neighbor, like, I don't have anybody actually does that anymore. But you know, like, our grandmas used to do that, you know, I don't have enough sugar.Let me go borrow stuff from the neighbors. So that's how I kind of like to think about things.It's kind of like, we can borrow things from there. They're right next door. It's fairly easy.It's not as much like it's a gentle place to start when you're doing Enneagram work.It's like, Hey, what's going on in my two wing? Hey, what's going on my four wing? How is that showing up? You know, when I was a teenager, I think I learned way more into my furrowing, I was in drama. I was a vegetarian, I think out of a need to just be noticed and different. So like, I kind of relate that used to be think I used to be a little more dramatic. I think age has mellowed that a bit as it does for most of us. But I'd say the meat of the Enneagram work, you know, comes in those connecting points, because that's really the map that shows us then.Okay, so this three is kind of strangling me, because I'm so committed to the type structure because this is how I functioned for 20 plus years. 30 plus years of my life, right? So how do I loosen that, and that's where we get to look at those connections. And for type three,that's at nine and six, you know, where three, six, and nine are on this inner triangle. So we all connect to each other and make this little tribe you know,equal lateral. I think that's right. I'm homeschooling my kids now. So I'm getting a re education and geometry. I think that's an equal lateral, right?

Juli Wenger: 23:42

There's so much stuff we forget so much. They bring home their homework.They're like, Mom, I was learning about this kind of thing in English today. And I'm like, what now? Yeah, yeah.Anyway, yeah,

Unknown: 23:54

good thing. There's lots of YouTube videos out there to help. Anyway, so we're on this inner triangle. And I recently listened to Russ Hudson put out a new sort of audio book on audibles with this town's true I think, is who did it with and so good. If you want to get a good deep dive, like that's a great place, I think it was and it was just I really enjoyed listening to it. But he talks about how there can be no healthy, you know, we're talking about three so no healthy three without some healthy nine,right, because nines were threes go. That's sort of the first instinctual move. When our three is strangling us. We go to nine as I mentioned the burnout and we go there to loosen up that three and it's not you know, a bad thing to move towards that quote unquote stress point. Or you know, what different people call it growth void for threes a

Juli Wenger: 24:41

resource? Yeah,it's

Unknown: 24:42

for threes. It's nasty.I mean, for all of us, it's necessary to go there. Because it's sort of the the antidote when that type structure is starting to just over write us and so moving to nine use to look like for me that burnout I'm done, I'm completely shut down. There is no hope everything is terrible. I'm terrible. Nothing will ever get better. Right? That was the you know, then with more awareness I call it more of a you know, as a sedative crashing into nine like whoa, hard crash in the nine and I'm done. Now I can be more aware like, Oh, I am sliding towards nine. Okay, so what is that trying to tell me? What am I doing? Am I have I committed to too much? Am I trying to do it too perfectly? Am I worried about what other people are thinking? Which is usually the answer for me. And so it can be like this clue to me that like,Hey, you're starting to go towards that nine space, what do you need to ask yourself, and what you need to do for yourself, but often that nine is a place of rest, and threes desperately need rest. Another thing we usually lie to ourselves about is that we don't need rest. And granted, threes have a lot of energy, you know,threes and eights, sevens all have a lot of energy. And yet,rest is entirely important for us, because that's where we can start them to process some of those. Oh, all that emotion that we tend to just shove down and push aside. You know, if we don't rest, you can't actually deal with that stuff. Because even though we don't love emotions, and where the heart do, you know, we're in the middle of those heart types. So we kind of go, I'm just not gonna do emotion, we still take it in. I mean, that still is how we navigate the world is through emotion. So if you don't ever do anything with that, it's kind of a recipe for disaster.

Juli Wenger: 26:30

Yeah. So intentionally leaning into the rest capacity that exists in the nine. Yeah, what about six,

Unknown: 26:41

six has been an interesting one. So nine, I recognized really early on in myself, you know, like, that's pretty easy. Six has been a little harder to integrate, I actually feel like six is one of the types I have a harder time wrapping my head around. Part of that is the huge spectrum that sixes you know, cover. Like there's, there's a lot of sixes for one thing, a lot of sixes a lot of nines in the world as what the experts are researching and searching. And I will say based on my experience of just knowing people and who know their type. I know a lot of nines. And I know a lot of sixes. I think the big thing about six that personally, I've learned lately, anything a lot of it probably has to do with this past two years we've been living in with a global pandemic is that things don't always turn out great. Actually, everything is not always good. In why like I knew in my head sort of that I've always been able to explain it away, like threes are usually very optimistic people. And sixes tend to be more realistic people. And I don't like like my husband's a five actually. And so he's he's, you know, he's in that headspace. And he he leans into six sometimes. And I really get irritated with people that are not optimists, if I'm honest, like, I don't like it.I'm like, just see the good and things and move forward. Like why would you want to stress about all of the things that could go wrong, when you could just move forward. And so I think a lot of the work for me has been admitting that it's not always good, and bad things happen and stuff is out of your control. And it's okay to be sad. A lot of the work for me lately has been leaning into I think, sort of the communal sadness, I think the six space helps me get there. Whereas nines a little more like peace and chill and love and harmony,which is good for rest, I think six pushes me into things are sad, and I feel sadness, and I can't fix it. And then the beautiful, I think work happens.So like, for me, I picture like so I'm in my three type structure. And I'm like, gonna do all this stuff. And I'm going to be supermom, and I'm going to be the best couples coach, and I'm going to do all this then,okay, okay, let's harass. Let's loosen that up, then let's go to six. And let's be, let's feel the feelings, I guess six helps me actually sink into my heart space, which is kind of weird,because it's a head connection.But it helps me sink into that heart space, and then come back to three in a more sort of balanced way that I think really brings out you mentioned the virtues and threes is hope. And it brings out that hope. And it's not like a false positive tox positive, toxic positivity hope it's like, which is usually like that, that would be traditionally more how I viewed things, and how my family of origin viewed things but like,it's real hope. It's hope and knowing that everything happens,because it does, and it doesn't matter what I do. And also like for me, that hope is that there's purpose and all of this all of the sadness, all of the pain has purpose. And it's has purpose and being with that sadness. Like I just I would crumble up without hope. But my hope now isn't the sort of false sense of hope that everything's rainbows and unicorns, it's everything will happen whether or not I do anything else. sept like exists, like, all I have to do is be, I just have to be in the moment and be a vessel for what I need to be in that moment, whether this is in coaching or with my kids, or in my marriage or whatever, you know, even just recording this podcast with you being in this moment. And just sharing what is authentically coming up. Like I didn't plan out what to say, you know, and it's a really nice feeling. Because a few years ago, I would probably have had like notes and things that I want to make sure I say this or that and no, I'm just in the moment. Yeah. Hopefully that answers your question about it a little more in depth. But moving on those lines. And what that looks like,

Juli Wenger: 30:37

it brings up a couple of thoughts. One is that in six is a head type that can very easily be confused as a heart type. Because yes, they do very much process the world and see the world through thinking.And yet they can be very emotionally connected. And they're very for other people.Right is how do I take care of?And I think that's why sometimes we see this two, six Miss type that can show up, right? How do I take care of the people around me. And they do that through planning and through providing like, here's your little care pack, like my best friend is a six and when we got COVID, like a year and a half ago now, but she's showing up at my door with food and little care packs for the kids, right? Because it's like, that's how I can take care of you. And I'm kind of planned and prepared for all of this and thought it through. The other thing is you're talking about hope. But that virtue of hope is having this foundation with Enneagram. And walking through the last couple of years. And what's come up for me over and over and over again lately is God just saying, hey, just show up and let me do the work.That's it just show up. Let me do the work. And I feel like I've learned so much about him in my relationship with him and being able to just like trust this as for a purpose in the last couple of years. And I'm curious how your relationship or understanding of your faith has shifted?

Unknown: 32:23

That is a great question. Because I grew up basically, you know,evangelical, sort of nondenominational church, spent a lot of time at church. And again, it I look back, it was so much about doing in my perspective, right. Church was about doing and serving. And,you know, my dad was, you know,an elder and my mom was in the band. And we were just always at church and always doing and I think there came a time when I started asking some questions about my faith, went to a Christian High School, and there wasn't a whole lot of encouragement to ask the hard questions from some of the people I was around. And I think somewhere I got a little angry in there. Because I was like,but I'm asking good questions.And I just want answers. I'm not saying I don't believe or, you know, I don't have that hope.Like, you know, it was like hard. It was this tension between sort of this needing to be the good church girl, and do the things that good church girls do and sort of fit that role that I, you know, that culture I was in and being authentics. Like, that's something where I first see the struggle for me going, Wait, is this really who I am? Or is this just the I'm getting applause for Right? Like, I'm a youth group leader, and I'm like, all this stuff. So then I would say like, since that time, which has been a long time now, I've just done a lot of wrestling, to say like, what is my faith? What do I believe in? And I really think the Enneagram has helped in the sense that, again, we're talking heart, head body all together.And I think it just makes me see the unity of God and all in all things, right. So the way that like, All things work together for good, like all these things I've heard my whole life. I just feel like I'm seeing it from a different angle, instead of it being a something you do. This is I and something that and who you are. I'm Emily, I'm a Christian, or I'm Emily, I'm a Southern Baptist, right, you know what I mean? Like, the labels and all this and that it's more like being in like,now I feel like my faith is being in something being a part of something joining in something. And I, I believe that, you know, for me, that's something I would call God I would call divine, I would call mystery, and the opportunity for union, it's always there. And it's a matter of are you going to step in and join it? And I think any group has been super helpful in that respect, because I'm like, Oh, my heart's always here. Like my emotions are always with me. My head's always here, I'm in my body. But am I there with awareness and presence? And are those pieces working together or are they cut off from one another? And, you know, again, just like we were saying earlier if I put my faith life in in one box, and my coaching, and my work in another box, and my parents eat another box, like, That's exhausting,and it doesn't work. And it's just honestly, like, I don't even know how we think that that's how it works somehow that's gotten in our heads though, right? Like that is culturally the norm, like, oh,that's work work life balance.Like, it's just, it's all connected. And so, yeah, like,so just the being able to step into what is there and offered and just letting that be what it is, is is just so freeing. I mean, it's true freedom.

Juli Wenger: 35:31

Yeah. I mean, I read this one all the time,right? For we've not been given a spirit of fear and timidity,but of power, love and sound mind. And something about that a couple of weeks ago struck me I was like, it's centers of intelligence. Right, like, I made this connection. And it's like, he just dropped it on me like a hammer, right? But power being this gut, space driven thing and love being hard and sound mind being head. And I was like, oh, it's even right there,right? This integration of all of the pieces, it's like, I put all of this in you, and have crafted you in a particular way.Because that's what the world needs. And that's where I'm so excited about you sharing your experience. And all of the people we get the honor to talk to in the series, is really looking at how have we all been created so differently, but so beautifully, and so uniquely,and so necessarily, so that we can all work towards healing the world, like, it sounds super idealistic, and you know, all of that. But I think that, I mean,the optimism that sits with me too, right? It's like, but we can be more compassionate, and we can have more justice, and we can be more loving, and we can be more connected. And like,isn't that what we want?Ultimately, like, we really think about society and the world and what we want, isn't that what we want is, so I'm really grateful for you showing up and being vulnerable and such a resource for us. If anyone wants to connect with Emily, we will have her website and Insta handles and all of the things.If you need couples and relationship coaching, she's your girl. Any other thoughts or advice or something for threes?As we're wrapping up?

Unknown: 37:37

Let's see, try to think like, what is the thing I would say to somebody that maybe is just sort of discovering their three, right? I would say don't feel it is really hard for people just discovering their threes to not feel sort of dirty or not like you realize like,Okay, so our vices, self deceit,or our you know, our, our sort of lower emotional habit is self deceit. And that sounds really icky. And then you get a lot of people that push around a stereotype of three as this, you know, look at me, Aren't I amazing? Aren't I the best? I guess I would say, don't turn yourself off to being a three thinking that's, that's just so surface level. And there's so much beauty in the type structure of three. And I think it's unfortunately one of the types that gets sort of a, an immediate, sort of like, Ooh,you're a three, right? Like,everybody always wants to be a seven man you read through the year, like seven, seven or seven, or, you know, I just, I don't feel like threes are given their due sometimes. And even just being the performer or achiever, people are kind of turned off, right. But I just want to remind threes that like,there's so much deep down in you. And the reason why that doesn't come out is because it's scary to be vulnerable. Because it's scary to not be the best because it's scary to think that you might say something wrong or do something wrong, and people won't like you. And I think maybe that's actually like I had, I'm a verbal processor. So sometimes I have to like go through a little bit before I get to it. I think this is what I would tell threes is admit how important it is that people like you admit how important to you?It is that people think highly of you just admit how much you care about what people think bottom line, admit how much you care what people think about you. And lean into that, because it will loosen and then you'll find that you actually don't care as much as you thought you did. And it's so freeing. So,yeah, just it's threes are great. And so are all the other numbers on the Enneagram and your three for a reason if you're a three so don't know don't be ashamed of it. Just lean into it.

Juli Wenger: 39:52

Couldn't say it any better. Thanks much I hope this episode triggered something in you and got you thinking about your next growth curve. Make sure to check out the show notes for more details and links to resources or people that we've mentioned today. And make sure you hit follow or subscribe. And if you have a hot minute, we'll leave an awesome review. I would be so beyond grateful. Until next time, be to much DARE YOU