Becoming Ourselves - The Podcast

The Enneagram Type 6 with Marites Kliem

February 23, 2022 Season 3 Episode 8
Becoming Ourselves - The Podcast
The Enneagram Type 6 with Marites Kliem
Show Notes Transcript

The Loyalist episode is finally here. This one is a little different as we welcome a client and dear friend to the stage. I've had the honour to be Marites's Enneagram teacher and her coach, and in the process witness some incredible type 6 transformation. In today's episode we're talking about planning and preparation, learning to trust yourself, stepping into your own power, and taking the reins back from the fear that is common to all head types.

MEET MARITES:

Marites Kliem - 'moving friends forward'.  Marites has been selling real estate since 2005 and has won several prestigious awards such as Top 100 of RE/MAX Western Canada (ranked #32), RE/MAX Platinum Club, and the Medallion Club (Top 10% of All Realtors in the Fraser Valley) over the course of her career. She's also a pastor's wife, a devoted Mom of 2 boys, and an adventurous foodie with a passion for music. Marites and her family love living in the Fraser Valley so they invest their time and resources into the Langley, Surrey, and Abbotsford communities through various non-profit organizations. Marites's clients have described her as caring, of high integrity, attentive to detail, genuine, fun, skilled, a trusted expert in her field and "the best Realtor ever." 

Website:  www.maritesrealty.com

FB: https://www.facebook.com/MaritesRealty/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mariteskliem/


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Juli Wenger:

You're on this earth for a purpose. You want to live a life that matters. So let's get through the fear and the overwhelm and all the crap that gets in the way of you living the life of fear for this is the becoming ourselves podcast where we are fired up about you getting clear on who you are, what you're called to, and how to get there. Because the world is waiting for you to show up and own your power. I'm your host, Juli Wenger, a coach, a speaker, a Jesus lover in Enneagram, two, and a tree shaker. Let's dive into what's keeping you stuck. Because on the other side, is a life that's fired up the film. Okay, today on the podcast, I am super excited because I have my good friend Mary test joining me. And we're going to talk about life as a six as a type six in the Enneagram as a continued continuation. Wow. Good. Good job, Julie continuation of our Enneagram series. So welcome.

Unknown:

Thank you. Excited to be here. Being a six. Yeah, I'll try to represent all the sixes out there.

Juli Wenger:

Well, you don't have to be a monolith for everybody. I thought that your reaction was fun. When I asked you to do this. And you're like, is there anything I need to like do to prepare or plan for like that, that?

Unknown:

Should I make a spreadsheet? Right? Is

Juli Wenger:

there something that I could do to make sure that I am as prepared? How do I not do this wrong? Yeah, so I'm going to ask you about this will be fun. So just for all y'all that need some context, Mary test is one of my amazing clients. And so we've worked through some Enneagram together. So they asked yesterday, how did the Enneagram come into your life? Like I've been asking everybody else I can point a big old finger back at myself. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about you.

Unknown:

Oh, well, because I'm one of Julie's clients. I know who I am. So I am Salt and Light, beauty, integrity and sincerity. Those are the things that make me but I'm also a mom of two boys that are four and five years old. And I am a real estate agent in the Fraser Valley in British Columbia. So I run my own business. I'm a work in mama. I love Jesus, my husband's an amazing pastor, super funny, fun guy. And yeah, we love having people over. Yeah, that's pretty much me in a nutshell.

Juli Wenger:

So let's go to when we first started digging into Enneagram, what were some of the things that surprised you about that whole system, your type, etc, etc.

Unknown:

I knew I've always been a fearful person. But from what I've read, it's like you're just a six is afraid of everything. It's just fear in general fear. And so I thought that was a me thing. I didn't know there was like an actual type number for it. And that explained a lot of things for me. So yeah, just realizing that fear is a big part of, of who I am.

Juli Wenger:

Mm hmm. And when we talk about that, just give everyone else some context, in case I haven't listened to the intro. The type six is part of our head triad. So we're talking about thinkers, people that primarily perceive and interact with the world through thought. This is underpinned for all head types by fear, and particularly anxieties who look at that future facing fear. When you figured out it wasn't just you. Was that like, a oh crap moment or a permission slip moment? Or tell us a little bit more about that?

Unknown:

I'd say as a permission slip, it made me feel like okay, I'm not alone in this and fear is just part of how I'm wired. And it's just something that I need to be aware of, so I can overcome it and and conquer it and be bold and, and get help from Julie to work through it.

Juli Wenger:

I like knowing shameless self promotion today. Oh my goodness, I did not pay her to save

Unknown:

so much money. I'm so rich now.

Juli Wenger:

What else did you learn about yourself?

Unknown:

The safety thing that sixes are big into safety, and I just thought I was a very careful person and and then once you pointed out you realize how much that has factored into my decision making from the sport that I don't play to how I've made business decisions to relationships that I have. It's an A lot of that comes from like, Is this safe? Is this going to be safe for me? And I thought that's just how everybody made decisions, but apparently not.

Juli Wenger:

Well, and then there's that whole dynamic of you're married to a seven. Yeah, so very defined seven. Here's what's interesting. We're going to talk about sevens next week, Tyson is like the most seven seven that ever said, and, and so you've got your safety and certainty drive, right that know what to expect to plan for it, prepare for it. And then we have the seven that is, it almost seems like it doesn't fit into this thinker bucket. That's like avoiding fear and trying to plan their way around fear and try to prepare for things that are scary and could happen, because sevens are like, I'm just going to avoid it. I'm just going to go create some opportunity. I'm just going to go hang out with some people, I'm just going to, you know, go do things that are fun and joyful. I'm curious about how, how has you understanding you, and how you're wired shifted dynamics in your relationship and expectations.

Unknown:

When we got married, I remember our premarital counseling. And he was saying he's like, you know, Tyson can bear burn you out. Because he can take you to so many social events. And he'll just go and go and go, and you're a little bit different from him. So, and this, like, even last night, I was saying I was having a bit of an emotional breakdown, just because we have seven different social commitments over the course of seven days. And, yes, I love people, and I love to host and have people over. But then the six in me is like, so planning every detail. And I'm like, Well, I know, they don't eat meat. And I know this person doesn't like that. And I have to go to the grocery store to pick that up. And, and then the kids have to get to bed this time, which means we need to start like easing back there bedtime the night before. And then and so I just see all the connecting pieces, whereas Tyson is just like, let's just, you know, we'll figure it out. It'll be fun. So there's a little bit of conflict there that we have to work through. And, and I have to learn how to say no to certain things, and just realizing that my capacity is not the same as his. And I have to, because I want so many details. And I want to know, what are the different outcomes if they don't like this? Should I prepare like a backup meal? And so just, you know, when they say, Oh, we're gonna have somebody over my brain right away starts triggering into the, the list and what does that mean? Whereas for Tyson, if I say we're gonna have some over he's like, okay, cool, fun. Yeah,

Juli Wenger:

that's it. That's all that's the end of it. Period. This is one of my favorite things about this as a tool. So we start to be able to understand how fundamentally differently other people perceive the world. Yes. Or it's like, Oh, you mean, you don't actually do all that planning? You don't actually go about preparing you don't make like a six page Excel spreadsheet? All of the things we need to pack? Like, yes. What I know, there's something there that you said about the preparing, like, what if people don't like this? Should I make a backup thing for them? told me about as a six. And granted, this is like your whole life. So it's your perspective, like this is just how you do life. But as a six, how does planning and preparing equate to loving people?

Unknown:

Oh, because I want people to have a good time. I want them to enjoy the food, I want them to, you know, if somebody is allergic to something, or they're trying out some diet, I want to try to accommodate that. And I want them to feel cared for. And feel like Oh, you thought of me that's so nice. Like I want people to feel cared for and loved. And like the mama in me wants to just like wrap them up. And all those little details to me say love and attention and say that I thought of you and i i put time in and I invested so that you would feel comfortable and safe. Coming over and breaking bread together. You know, like I want people to feel that warmth. Yeah,

Juli Wenger:

I want people to tune into this, because there's not only different ways that we perceive the world according to tight, but there's different ways that we express love. So there are going to be types like, I'll just use myself an example. As an example. I am an affirmer. I love to give affirmation because it is a dominant love language for me. And there is a if we want to just stay in that love languages thread, there's an acts of service piece that shows up with a lot of sixes. And there's this motivation of if I make sure things are prepared for people if I make sure that we're ready if I make sure that people are taken care of because I've put in this time in this effort in this planning. That's a way that I can express love. And we see that show up with type ones a lot to where they're, how do we make sure that everything is like done And ready and right. And I'll hear anecdotes about ones and I see this a lot in fixes to where it's, the parent was always making sure they had a really balanced lunch and they were fed and the laundry was done. And like, that was how they would express versus other parents that are just like, I just want to like hug and snuggle. And sixes are kind of like a combination of both of those things. Like there's this soft, warm friendliness and kind of sweet hardness that shows up for a lot of sixes.

Unknown:

And classic example was my son was getting his vaccine, and he was really a little bit nervous about getting a needle. So I packed him a little snack box, I put his favorite toy in a little backpack, and I wrote him a note being like, You're a super brave boy, mommy's really proud of you, you know, and then but Tyson was taking on my husband. And so I was really excited. He's got this pack, and he's ready to go. And then he comes home, like, Hey, how was it? Like, yeah, I was fine. I'm like, did you like my note? Did you read him? He's like, Oh, I forgot that in the car. I was like, could you do that to me? It was fine. I mean, my son ended up not needing it. But still, I had put all this time and care and effort. And he's like, Oh, I forgot about that. That was in the van. Like,

Juli Wenger:

thanks, Mom. Yeah, cool. Yeah. Okay, I want to jump back to the fear piece. Because one of the things and where this like this interview gets to be a little unique is I've been able to really witness the shift in you, as you have come to understand more about who you are, and what drives you. And some of these patterns of like the planning is a superpower. The being able to see in your business, how planning for potential outcomes, supports clients, that's a superpower. But we've also seen the flip side. And I'm wondering if you'll share a little bit about when we started this journey? Where was the level of fear for you? And how was that impacting how you show up?

Unknown:

I feel like I was a different person. There was I was trying to make a big jump in my business, it was growing faster than I could keep up with. And I knew I needed help. But I was so scared of what that meant. Because that would mean possibly hiring somebody bringing somebody onto the team. So financially, that's a big risk. Introducing my clients who I love super deeply into a third person who what if they screw it up? What if they're a weirdo? And what if they mess up the meat? Like, all sorts of red flags going on about growth? And what if I just all the what ifs in growing my business, and I was so terrified of what that meant, but I knew that it had to happen, because I was going to start to burn out from just having to be five places at once. But I had to really move away from what if something bad happened to what if something good happened? What is possible? If this goes well? And is this a calling that I feel that God's put on my life? And if so then he will provide the means and the right people and give me the courage to do it. But it was definitely a process of, of being like, I can't do this, all this sort of negative self talk, I can't do this, who do I think I am, I'm not capable of this. I'm not educated enough for this. All these things could go wrong to then being like, okay, I can do this, God's calling me and really leaning into my confidence in who he's made me to be, instead of all the fear of what could happen.

Juli Wenger:

This ties into this theme of self trust. And the I mean, the six is called the loyalist. And they are typically super dependable. They're reliable, they are loyal to a fault. Often what takes sixes out is a couple of things. One is this belief that they can't trust themselves. That there is an inherent like, I just, I can't trust my own decisions, my own knowing so I'm going to look for authority, I'm going to look for guidance outside of me. And when I find that authority and guidance, sometimes I'll like stay stuck there. Because I don't trust myself enough to leave and to step out of the pattern. And so when we look at you shifting to a point of stepping through some of that fear and learning to trust yourself, can we use the worship team example to talk about that, okay, because this was like, This was so fun. So take us back to you're starting to learn to trust yourself. You're starting to understand this drive for I mean, dependability, for avoiding fear for doing the hard things you You've started to grow the team, you've brought someone on, like, you stretched your edges. And then this opportunity comes up.

Unknown:

So I've always been a lead singer for my whole life since I was eight years old. I've been singing everywhere. I never learned how to harmonize. I didn't play an instrument very well. So I never sang harmony. And in high school, they put me in choir and made me an alto, I could not figure out what the Alto lines were. So I just think soprano, and I remember the choir teacher, like Come on, sing louder, and I'm like, Oh, I don't know what it is. And just, like, some negative experience there, and then I've been on some worship teams at churches and, you know, trying to learn the harmony lines, and I would just kind of psych myself into I can't do this, this is too hard. And people who do this have a supernatural gift from God, because I don't have this gift and all sorts of things. I'm like, No, I meant to see sing lead. That's what I meant to do. And so I'm just going to stay in my lane. But then the opportunity came to sing at our church, which is a really large church. It's filled with amazing musicians, people that are very gifted and well educated musicians. And I felt like I was totally out of my league. But I also wanted to audition and just try because I love worship, I miss being on it. But I knew that it would mean I'd have to sing a harmony. And I'd have to learn to do it. And do it well. And the audition, I psyched myself out of that audition so many times the fact that I even showed up to the audition blows my mind, because I was like, No, I'm not gonna bother. No, and it's fine. I don't need to I'll just sing at home or like, I'll just worship from the pews like, that's fine. I'll just sing in my role. And like, that's considered worship. Like, that should be good enough, right? Like, I was really convinced I didn't have to do it. But I knew I was supposed to. And I. And so I went for the audition. And it went really well. But I did practice a lot. I rehearse like crazy. And it was like, but what if I get on the worship team? And they say yes. And now I've learned a harmony for my audition. But now I have to sing harmonies on a weekly basis to all these new songs that I've never learned. And and so even when I did make the team, I still felt like I cheated my way there.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah. Can I trust my own ability? Can I trust my own worthiness? So like, Thanks for showing up. Thanks, Nico. Appreciate you.

Unknown:

Yeah, it was a battle. And some people it's like, well, let's just audition to sing at church. I'm like, No, this was like lifelong, deep rooted fears and insecurities, and self talk stuff that I had to battle through, to show up to, to just audition. The fact that I've done it, and I'm on the other side of it, I feel so much better. I'm still trying to learn the harmonies. And Julie helped me to think of them as just second melodies. And I'm like, Oh, I could do that. So it was just like a shift in thinking, but.

Juli Wenger:

But this is the thing that line is it's a shift in thinking. Mm hmm. That is exactly, exactly exactly it because you had to shift from a place of fear. Yeah. Into resilience into, I know that regardless of because I remember having these conversations before the audition happened, I know that I'll survive this. Regardless of the outcome. I know, I'll step through this. And I'll have learned something, and I'll have chosen me. Yeah, because sixes are all for everybody else all the time. This is true. And there's an avoidance of the things that are scary. And often the avoidance is in the planning. How do I plan for Worst case scenario? How do I plan for all the things that could go sideways or wrong? And sometimes that planning is such a spiral that it's like, we just never move? We never start? And so you shifting the way you think, how has that allowed you to start to learn to trust you more?

Unknown:

Yeah, I mean, every decision I've made, and my dad even told, told me this not that long ago. He's like, anytime you got to make a decision, you always take a poll. You ask everybody else, you get all their opinions, but then you make it at the end of the day, you do make the decision, but only after you've consulted with a whole bunch of people and weighed all the different options. But yeah, knowing that I can think differently and knowing that no matter what the outcome is going to be okay. I don't know if I'm gonna jump out of a plane because I might actually die but I mean if there's something else I want to try that like I probably won't die. I can maybe do that like riding a bike. Like I'm I'm a grown woman and I still don't know how to ride a bike because I am scared and that childhood thing is I'm just like seeing all these different things in my life that I have not done, because I was so afraid to do it. And now having the skill set to have done this audition, I can still apply the skill set to other things, say, okay, I can try something else that's really hard. And I can lean into just thinking about it differently and lean into, okay, this is who I am, this is who God's made me to be. This is part of me learning to trust myself and learn to trust that I heard God's voice correctly and go for something. And then if I fall flat, I fall flat. And that's not the end of the world. And I think the fear of failure was just kind of holding me back from so many things. And I'm really happy to, to now have this thing in my tool belt. I wouldn't say like I've conquered and now I'm, you know, I'm gonna go run marathons and do things outside of my comfort zone tomorrow,

Juli Wenger:

you're gonna fundamentally rewire who you are, and how, you know, you've been essentially put together, right. And I think that's important too, is it's not about us becoming like another type, it's not about you saying, like, I'm gonna throw all caution to the wind. Because there's an element of that that's what you know, that's what makes you you, and that's what God has placed in you. But it's when we approach it from a space of intentionality. And leveraging it for a purpose, it's very different, right than when we are saying, I'm just going to default into that worst case, spiral and let fear drive. Instead, I'm going to just zoom out a little bit, and I'm going to evaluate what's driving and what do I want to do, it's like sixes that they're most healthy. Or when they start to develop their seven links, the more they can be open to a little more adventure, a little more variety. But it's not like, there's an expectation of now you need to look like a seven, right, or now you need to look like a five or it's like, you're still who you are. And there is necessity to us having sixes, there's necessity to us having all the different types with all of their different ways of perceiving and interacting with the world that make everything work. And, you know, from a perspective of us being sisters in Christ, it's like, your role, and your gifting. And the path that he's put you on requires you to be a healthy and empowered version of you and not have someone else right and requires me to be a healthy and empowered version of me. And not for me to look like a six are you to look like a two or, you know, like there's so there are so many things that we can and I know you and I have talked about this, like we can should all over ourselves, it's like, oh, I should look like this, or I shouldn't do this or should reach into that or should. But instead for you to be able to this ties back to the trust thing for you to be able to trust you. And to trust God and to say like, Okay, what's the next thing for me? What's my next growth curve? What's the next stretching on my path? So that I can live out my purpose. Now that regardless of how we're wired, that's going to be a challenging and an uphill journey. But once we're specifically created for,

Unknown:

it's very natural for me to figure out somebody else's calling and to encourage them and support them and be like, Yeah, you should totally do it. And then even for this little audition, it was like, I had to really convince myself No, I want this, like, I do want this, not like I should do this. Or maybe I don't really need to do this. It was like no, actually in my heart of hearts like this is what I want to do. This was what I want. I want to try this. But it it took a lot for me to even get to that point of saying this is what I want.

Juli Wenger:

There's one other piece I want to touch into for anyone else who's listening to this who either might be a six or who

Unknown:

who loves mortgage to a six

Juli Wenger:

is but what we're seeing and this came up in one of my Enneagram training some time is that the alarm system, the neurobiological alarm system for sixes is wired more sensitively for than for some other types. Yeah, so can you speak to that a little bit.

Unknown:

We had a trip coming up to camp was last summer. And camp has water. Like lakes. My kids don't really swim. I don't really swim. It's a huge area. I can't keep my eyes on the kids the whole time. They're running all over the place. and people there, we don't know there's total strangers that I'm trying to get to know. All sorts of alarm bells were going off in the strip and my husband who's a seven is like, very chill and happy about it. And I'm just going well, what if this happens? And what if the kids fall off, you're like, it's just it kind of I do spiral, I can totally spiral into the what ifs, and start panicking. So I mean, I tried to cope with that by over planning, and like packing first aid kits and packing endless activities in case of kids get bored and making sure we have floaties. And yeah, like finding people to help me watch the kids so that they don't get lost or kidnapped. And just, I guess, maybe worst case scenario stuff on a camp in a place I've never been before, was very much a trigger for me. Yeah.

Juli Wenger:

I think anyone who's a six right now is like,

Unknown:

and I'm like, I know I go

Juli Wenger:

on that trip. And then, you know, are some of the other types like, I'm like, that's not gonna happen. What are the chances? You're like, actually, my five wing has me calculating their percentage likelihood that

Unknown:

I've Googled how many drownings there have been. And I've seen a kid almost drowned and well, yeah.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah. There's, as far as toolkit goes, I mean, there's some things that we look at with sixes, right? Like how do you start to keep tabs on the times you trusted yourself? And it's worked out? What are the inputs? You can limit? Because things like the news are, yeah, crafted such that it can make that personality wearing go nuts? Yeah, spiral. Really quick news anymore. Yeah. So like, what can you do in terms of your own boundaries, right, that help limit some of those inputs, especially while people learn that they can trust themselves, is so pure to give a piece of advice or encouragement to other sixes that are listening to this, about their own journey into knowing themselves in Enneagram? What comes to mind,

Unknown:

I think it's important you still are who you are. So I am cautious. I am a planner. So the idea of being like, well, let's just toss that to the wind and fly was like, that's just not going to happen. And that goes against who I am. So I'm still gonna write out my list, I'm still gonna maybe worry about it for, you know, a few minutes, but then to let it go and be like, okay, the outcome is not up to me, I've done all the planning, that's possible. And I need to sort of put it away. And one thing that Julie did for me, too, is like trying to plan for this camp trip. She's like, give yourself permission to deal with this two weeks prior. And so I think I had a month or so ahead of time, and I would have used that entire month, the whole time worrying about it. But instead, I gave myself the permission slip. I left it for a few weeks, and then two weeks prior, that's when I started my planning. And so I think there's are there are ways to still use your gifts as a planner and as a cautious person. And as the the person that maybe figures out the what if scenarios and plans for those things. And it's like thank goodness that you were here because you had this plan and like thank goodness mom pack this because dad wouldn't have pack that. So I think there are some really good things, but to just not spiral too much and get too concerned about the what ifs.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah. One last question. What's your favorite part about being a six?

Unknown:

Oh, I like gathering all the information. I like knowing that I have all the different outcomes planned in my head and, and being able to have somebody like, oh, man, I wish I had hot sauce. And I'm like, actually, I have hot sauce for you. Oh, actually, I pack that for you. I love being able to surprise people. And they're like, how did you know this was my favorite restaurant? Or how did you know? I'm like, because I've been paying attention. And you know, I've planned for that and prepared for it. And so I like being able to surprise people and by using my skills with planning.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah. Thanks for doing this with me. It's fun. Good time. I'm so proud of you for all of the things but before this turns into a gush fest, make sure to tune in next week, we're going to interview Anastasia, so type seven that I did some Enneagram training with and you're going to get to see like up close and personal the variety. And for those of you who have been tuning in for a while already in this series, make sure you're paying attention to the energy and the shifts and the differences between the types as you're listening to them. That's been one of my favorite things in training because the training I've gone through has been panel style. So we get to hear from groups of people who are different types and being able to compare and contrast type two energy and type five energy and type seven energy and type eight energy and just how these different types show up and they're intense. and how they communicate has been more the volume for and some of the eight Yeah. And the tools are just like right now, podcast. So until next time all my love Virtual hugs I hope this episode triggered something in you and got you thinking about your next growth curve. Make sure to check out the show notes for more details and links to resources or people that we've mentioned today. And make sure you hit follow or subscribe. And if you have a hot minute we'll leave an awesome review. I would be so beyond grateful. Until next time, be to much DARE YOU