It's a Type 2 party over here! Come hang with me and Shirley as we dive into what live as an Enneagram 2 looks like. Randomness and enlightenment are coming your way. Also, listening to Shirley is like a big warm hug. We're talking boundaries, carrying, helpfulness, and how the enneagram has brought us into a life that is so different than we expected, and how God has used it.
Shirley Poitier was born and raised in Northern California and currently resides in East Palo Alto.
Her passion for the Enneagram led her to learn all she can about it so she can use it as a healing tool.
Her path has led her to study with The Narrative and the Enneagram Prison Project (EPP). She looks forward to integrating her faith and the enneagram into her upcoming coaching practice.
Shirley has been married for 34 years and is the mother of two amazing adult children. One of her greatest strengths is her wide network of friendships.
Her education includes a degree in Counseling Psychology and a degree in Bible and Theology from William Jessup University.
In her spare time, she enjoys cooking soul food, watching Reality TV and hosting healing circles. As the mother of a high-needs child, she provides support to local parents and their children.
You can find Shirley's hope inspirational pages on Instagram & Facebook @TheHopegalore
You're on this earth for a purpose. You want to live a life that matters. So let's get through the fear and the overwhelm and all the crap that gets in the way of you living the life of fear for this is the becoming ourselves podcast where we are fired up about you getting clear on who you are, what you're called to, and how to get there. Because the world is waiting for you to show up and own your power. I'm your host, Juli Wenger, a coach, a speaker, a Jesus lover in Enneagram, two and a tree shaker. Let's dive into what's keeping you stuck. Because on the other side is a life that's fired up the film. Oh, we're gonna have a good time today. Today on the podcast, I am joined by my sister Shirley. I'm so excited. This is going to be either the most enlightening or the most random bounce all over the place feely conversation that has ever happened on becoming ourselves the Podcast. Today, we're talking about type twos, be helpers, the befrienders. What else do we call ourselves? Surely?Shirley:
Yes, the helpers, the seer. What else? Do we boundary list people? We don't have boundaries. We want boundaries. But we don't necessarily. Let's let's language police this the recovering boundary list people? Yes, yes. We used to not have boundaries. But I held yourself has a really wonderful boundary. So that's it. Now you all understand TOS p so yeah, yeah.Juli Wenger:
Okay, so let's just back up the back up the truck a little bit. We'll center ourselves. And we'll do our best to sort of kind of behave. So Shirley and I, as with most of the guests in this series, which I'm excited about, almost all of them went to Enneagram training together. And this was one of those fun, it must have been like a two radar a little bit. I don't know, we're just like, both landed in the Zoom Room. And I was like her, I need to connect with her, I need to we need to be friends. And we just totally hit it off because we get each other. And we're we happen to also be sisters in Christ, which helps us get each other on a whole nother level. But as helpers we just really connected. And so I love your energy. And I just love you. And I am really happy to share you with my audience and have them learn a little bit about life as a two. And what that's like, and what's great about it, I want to talk. So yeah, I'm gonna do what I did to Tony in our type one interview. Tell me a little bit about type twos. Just general overview. Let's give people a feel for how you and I are wired double team today.Shirley:
Um, so if I was to describe, first of all I want to say thank you for having me. And yes, when we met in the little Zoom Room, I felt the combustion. So I know that like something went off in the universe. And so we had to stay in touch. And so thank you for having me and helped me to stay on track because twos are multitaskers. And so I may go from one conversation. And beside another. Twos are, from my perspective, a kind people, loving people, people who walk into a room and can see everyone from from my view has a deep heavy heart connection with almost everyone has a sense of trying to take care of people, maybe even places and if we're doing recovery, we can say things perhaps we tried to take care of things to have a great need to feel affirmed to feel loved to and and actually what they do is they do things we do things so that we can get the love or response in exchange. And I think that that's a brutally honest statement. However it is. It is true. As much as we I don't want it to be Yeah, but tit for tat. I think that was one of the hardest things to come to terms with about myself.Juli Wenger:
When I discovered this was, you mean I give to get something back. Because we're like, oh, we're just selfless and give, give, give, give, give. And then if we're not getting this stuff back, we're not getting those affirmation hits or that validation. And it's like, it shows up. Like you didn't show up for me when I needed you, even though I show up for you. And I know what you need before you know what you need. So clearly, everyone else must function like that, which they don't. So take us back to the point in time where you discovered the Enneagram. And tell us a little bit about that.Shirley:
Okay, so I was watching a movie with my daughter, and something happened on in the screen in the movie. And I felt sad. And I started to cry. And, and then I'm talking to the screen trying to tell the, the actor what they should do. And my daughter looks over at me, and she had went to college, and she learned about the Enneagram. And she says, Mom, you're such a to. I took that as a as, like she was calling saying something bad, right? So I said, what is that? So she sat on her phone a test. And I took the Enneagram test and asked me about 75 questions. And I was a hard bedrock to, but I didn't know what that was. So I began to Google it. And it was like spot on. It was spot on that I'm this helper, and this person who takes care of people, what else am I in relationships, I want you to embrace me, and to tell me who I am. And all all of these, all of these things that I do. So when I learned about it, and then I had other people around me take tests. And their response was spot on. I was like, this is more than just some kind of random messaging or concoction if you would. So I was like, I gotta learn more. And so I stumbled onto the narrative thinking I was taking a test and I was typed in. And from there on, I was like, I gotta learn this, I got to know more, I see it as a tool to help people see themselves, right. Like, we often you know, tell people to take care of themselves. And, and, and we ask people how they're doing, but we really don't stay the listen. And this tool that the Enneagram is really that stay to listen. And to find out who you are and, and how you operate. You know, like, what coke do you put on? I'll share more about the coat when you're asked me later.Juli Wenger:
Okay, I want to touch in on neurobiology for a minute. Because one of the things that was really fascinating, and I think it's mostly theory at this point, but Pete are one of our teachers. And one of the courses I took with him and talked about the neurobiology of some different types and how we are physiologically hardwired. This is where the Enneagram starts to bring in Cymatics. And body sciences and some of us are hard wired differently, depending on our type. One of the things that shows up for type two is and this was like a lightbulb moment about a year into me studying the Enneagram. But was we have a higher number, at least this is the theory of mirror neurons. So we see other people's emotions or their feelings, and our body replicates that emotion in us. It mirrors it he had explained it as like scientists do these studies with monkeys, right? And the monkeys are hooked up to these brain scanner things. And the scientist was hooked up to the brain scanner saying and I hope I do this story justice. But anyway, the scientist took a drink of water. And the monkey's brain reacted as if the monkey was taking the drink of water. And I was like, wow, that because here I am thinking oh, we're just like super empathetic. And that's all there is to it. And we can just like kind of feel other people's feelings. Like no, we're not feeling their feelings. We're feeling the feelings in us that our body is literally replicating and embodying. And so when we watch TV, because this is such a hallmark of TOS or those who like pull from too strongly, that will be watching a show and it can be the most ridiculous thing okay, like, I can be watching frozen to where Elsa gets to auto haulin and they're singing this song about her being found and I'm just like sobbing on the couch every single time because I'm just picking up all of this emotional stuff on my body's creating it, or it can be watching something else that I know is clearly fiction. And my husband just looks at me like what is like I'm just doing like, I don't even like feel the feels necessarily but my eyes are crying like I just it is just a natural reaction. Because we have this neurobiology,Shirley:
I say ditto to that because I, I do we do miss mirror that, right? Like it's that hard wire it is. And. And as I go along, Julie, I'm starting to appreciate it. Because as a child, I hated that. Like, why do I care everybody else like other people, I would run in circles of people, things would happen and the dog would get hit, we would be walking from school down the street, a dog would get hit, and I'm worried. Oh, we should go backwards. We should go back we should do. And other people were like, I don't care. Like they could move forward. But I was doing this even with the dog, right. And I'm afraid of dogs. But I would do this. And so what you're saying, Yeah, I say ditto. Yeah.Juli Wenger:
Well, and it's learning. Like, I'd love your feedback on this. The, the swirl of other people's emotions, and all of the things happening in society. One of the biggest challenges as a two has been to determine what are my feelings? And what's everybody else's stuff that I'm taking on and carrying? And how do I differentiate those so I can stop carrying everybody else's stuff?Shirley:
Yes, yes. That's so it's so crucial. Because as a two and you just take on every, it's almost like, what is that? What does that material Velcro, like, I walk into a room, and this person needs prayer for their mom, and this person needs prayer for their marriage, and this person is their child is sick, this person is trying to get a job. And then they come. And then it velcros. And I'm trying to mimic, mimic and do this. And then what it does is it leaves me just smashed, you know, like,Juli Wenger:
overwhelmed and overburdened and over giving. And then there's the boundaries things,Shirley:
which feels funny, which feels funny, because then the boundaries is when I pull apart from that, if I blow all of that Velcro, like smash the Velcro, and then you're wrong, then I'm wrong. And then my caring part kicks back in like, but these people need me to hold them. Yeah. And so it's a vicious cycle until you get a healthy boundary. Till you get to say, I believe I took it in one of your classes. It was like what's mine? And was yours?Juli Wenger:
Yeah, yeah. Brene is definition Brene Browns definition of a boundary, what's mine and what's not mine? And what's okay and what's not okay. You know what I was thinking of? Jeannie? Poof, what do you need? Poof? What do you need? Poof? What do you need? All right, like. But it's that you just said it is but these people need me. And that's such the underlying wiring for us have we have that need to be needed. And back to what you said at the beginning that need for affirmation, and validation, and to be doing and to be fixing and to be helping that it's like, our ego attaches to that. And then we go out looking for these hits of how can I be helpful. But in the process, I do this thing with a cup of pens all the time with clients, right? And it's full of pins. And when we go give, give, give, give, give, it's like we've turned it upside down and just dumped it out. And that's our energy. That's our capacity. That's our, our internal, you know, cup filling. We're just like draining ourselves dry giving and giving and giving and giving and giving. And then we wonder why we're, you know, tired or resentful or struggling or, you know, and then sometimes what happens too, I'd love for you to speak to this is we because we're giving an giving mode, we start to attract people who are particularly needy. And who don't necessarily honor our boundaries that we don't even have. But when we started with that place, it's like, no, I don't. That's not cool. You're not allowed to do that. You're supposed to be there for me. Call them energy vampires. I love them. But it's like we're sticking a hole in the bucket.Shirley:
That's so true because like Like, it is like a magnet, you go out and then they draw from you, and then you kind of beat on it because that's your method of movement, right? Like, oh, you need some help, I'll help you. You need this out to you need somebody to sit and talk to, I'll help you know that kind of, on and on. But I want to share with you one thing that I learned I had gotten to during COVID, I got to this burnout that I was allowing people to meet me, and I was enjoying it. And one day, I was sitting with my girlfriend, Ms. I said, You know what, it's like, it just came over me. I was like, I am not the savior. And that was so powerful for me. So I we said it to each other over and over, we're like, we're gonna get the t shirt. I am not the savior. And it was great revelation, because without taking the pause, without prayer time, without just stopping and like your beautiful science that says behind you is to be still. I just go on this perpetual hamster wheel. But when I really stopped, I guess you know what God reminded me? Surely you're not the savior, I can save them. You're not the only one in the room that can hear their prayer or, or meet their need. I'm still God. And so I let that resonated. So when I get really deep into my madness, I go back and go, what's your God? I'm not the savior. I'm not I didn't die on the cross. I didn't wasn't raised again. I don't have all our my hand from her from the grains. You know, I kept hard to sin. But I know who does. And that person has all power. And they're the Savior. And I'm not. And so that's, that's the balancing of my Tunis. As I go back to who's in charge? How do I help with the balance?Juli Wenger:
And how do we step into true humility, right? Because there's, for each type, there's a virtue or there's a here's the best of us. Here's our superpower. Here's the thing that most reflects our Creator. And for twos, that's humility. For ones that's perfection, right. So for us, and this was what I really loved about going through a training process with Enneagram was I always thought of humility as timidity. And what I came to realize was that humility and our growth opportunity is to choose is to be able to give from a place of not needing anything in return, to be able to give from a place of not holding other people's stuff. But really just being a conduit and not making it about us. And I mean, we're good at making it not about us from a perspective of we're subconsciously still making it about us, right? Like, I'm gonna be for you everybody else first. But ultimately, there's still that underlying need to get something back. But when we can eliminate that, and we can say, Okay, God, I'm just going to be a flow through over here, you're going to put your love in me so that I have it so I can give it to people. And that I can hold space, because twos are nurturers, okay, like, Y'all are picking that up from surely already, I'm sure she's just got this magical, soft, warm, like, you just want to hug her energy. And like, that's part of the superpower. It's part of how he wires us and us being able to say like, okay, it could be for people, but I can hold their space for them outside of me, without recreating all their emotions without taking it on without trying to carry it. Because that just duplicates it. It doesn't actually take it away from them. And I mean, the problem for other people, and I know we've talked about this a little bit, so I'm just gonna say this, and then I'm going to let you talk is when we are consistently trying to carry people and they learn that they can, like dump their stuff on us. It robs them of their own opportunity to journey through the things I need to journey through and to learn the things I need to learn through and have the challenging experiences that they need to have to be built and to be ready for whatever else is gonna come.Shirley:
I agree. I agree with that statement. Because when I try to come in and try to be the superhero, and to be the end all. Really my intent is good. But I don't give a haven't given something Phase Two, the full learning process. I'll give you an example. I used to work at a pregnancy center. And I remember this woman came in and she was living on the street, she had these children. She was pregnant, like, like, just the weight of the world from my eyes, because my weight may not be her weight, right. And she said, she needed some clothes, and they didn't have clothes, her size in our little cabinetry, our little closet. So I put it upon myself, to get in my car, I told my colleagues, I'm leaving, I'll be back. I went down to Walmart, at charged by all of these clothes to give her I don't know, like, like, I was almost clothing myself, right? Like, this is what I would mean, this is what she means. And I came back with all these bags from the store and put them on the floor in front of her. And she says, I can't take those. I have nowhere to put them. And I I didn't. And then I think she felt even worse to tell me that she couldn't take it. Right. And so I'll never forget that story of my over helping. didn't help. And so I can let people hit rock bottom. And trust that the bottom is a stepping stone. Right? Like, yeah, yeah. I'm never at a loss of words, but I'm just reflecting on, on how I was in a rush to rescue. Yeah. And rush to rescue with that. AndJuli Wenger:
that brings us back to that question of Is that mine? Or is it not? Because then where do we draw the line? If we're rushing into rescue people, I mean, a, it may not actually even be helpful. And that just challenges our whole identity sometimes, but is that what we are purposed to do? It's what we're called to do in those moments. And we really got to tune in and be like, okay, hold up. Because if I could tell you how many people I have had conversations with over the last few years of running this business, that I just wanted to help so badly, I would almost sign them up for free. Right? It's like, I'll just pro bono this one, and I get your god what No. Like I've had to be, and this is hard, because we want to make everybody be okay. And then maybe we'll be enough, right? Because we battle with that enoughness thing. But it's this boundary of under these particular specific circumstances. And to this capacity, will I take on pro bono clients, too, to this capacity, while I say yes to opportunities to serve, which is challenging, because we're called to be servants to have servant's hearts to you know, be for other people. And yet, coming to terms with I have to take care of me to have the capacity to serve. Like, that's a tough one for twos that have that outward facing energy of everybody else. Everybody else. Everybody else. Everybody else first. Yes.Shirley:
It's, it's, it's like that. So when in one of the trainings when I learned, like the all the characteristics about the two, and I started, I began to appreciate it. It was like, God has this characteristic. And he allows me to happen, right? Like, even for like when Jesus had this ability to serve the people, and walk through the towns, and stop and heal this person, and then go by himself, you know, he had all of those skills. And so if I'm a follower of him, then I recognize that he didn't touch everybody. He didn't do all the things. He he followed how the Spirit led him and then I could be victorious to I'm gonna get that t shirt of Victorious to to mimic that, like you said to to not mimic the people but to mimic the the provider of the gift. If that makes sense.Juli Wenger:
Well, and then he would go rest by himself. Okay, like for this is one of the favorite things for me about Enneagram and we referenced it a little bit in the intro episode for the series, but heart people to really like refresh to grow They need solitude. Because in solitude, we don't have anybody around to be four, to prove anything to. So there is their solitude, silence and stillness. And silence is primarily for head types. As a spiritual growth practice, and solitude is for heart types and stillness for gut types. And watching that process of how he'd go off by himself to recharge, was like, I need to have myself care on my soul care to be able to show up and do the things I need to do for the people. Like, oh, well, there's a permission slip,Shirley:
yes. If I mimic that I won't be so drained. And if other tunes mimic that, that I can I can, I can stop. I can pray that God, do you want me to help? I could listen. Because, because because I can tell you this. And you probably do understand this being my two sister, my two soul sister is even in the prayer. I already have this response, but I'll do it. Yeah, you know, like, God, should I give it? I'll do it. And almost kind of shying away from what if he says no, like, I'm I don't know, I'm just on your show, just telling on myself. But but the real. The real deal is, can I walk that pace, not so much with myself not so much the people that I'm mirroring or, you know, have engagement with, but can I walk this thing out with God, and be and, and bring that essence of him to the space as he puts me in. So that's what I that's what I value about being a two is that it is loving that it is giving that it is caring, it is protective. It does see and it does love, you don't I mean, all of those things. But there's, there's a balance to it.Juli Wenger:
And there's a cost. Because if we are continually jumping in and doing and moving, then there's an opportunity cost because the things that we may be able to step into if we're not so busy. If we're not rushing to fix everybody all the time, then we have capacity to step into what we're supposed to write. So let's talk a little bit about more of the two structure in terms of the other numbers that it's tied to, if you're to look at say type one and type three as your wings, and talk a little bit about how those show up in your personality and your day to day. What stands out for you there.Shirley:
So I originally was thinking that I was a two wing three. And that's because then the threes have a kind of a performance there. They're kind of sisters, almost twin sisters, but have a difference. And then the other day, I was reading something about the Enneagram with the wing. And I looked at the two and I have a lot of the one quality too, because there's a kind of a perfection kind of leadership part to myself. And so I would say that I'm a two wing one, where I do bring about leadership to my environment. There's a perfection part that's in there, that's about making sure that it's done right. There is a caring part that bleeds in with my two caring that the ones offer. And so I yeah, I lean towards that was my was that that perfectionism that the one has,Juli Wenger:
yeah. And we can pull from both, right? This is one of the things that I appreciated when I was first learning about the whole system was Your wings are developmental, more than they're hardwired. So as you go through life, there's theory that no one will be more dominant for the first half of life and then it'll kind of switch or that it can flex back and forth a little bit. And sometimes it's hard to nail down because there's so many variables with you know, trying to understand personality. And initially, I was like I'm winging both. Okay, like and I'm a bit of a rebel so that fits too but I remember going to a day long masterclass with Ian Morgan Kron here in Edmonton and something came up Wings. And I was like both like I, I lean into that perfectionism and seeing what's possible. And I walk into a room and I see the nail hole in the wall, like right now. And the achiever driver gets stuff done, build it move at warp speed three, like, it's both. And then I had this moment. And it was actually when we were in training together, and we're listening to this panel of threes, talk about their experience. And they were talking about their desire for perfection. And how there is a form of perfectionism that shows up with them, but it's all about how other people perceive them. And I was like, Oh, snap, because I started to think about, right like, my front yard, I mean, my backyard too. But my front yard needs to look just so I will legit walk out there in the summer and set up all the cushions, even if I'm not going to be out there. Because if people drive by, I want them to see like, just so. And so I started evaluating what perfectionist tendencies do I have? And what's the intention behind them? And there's a few that I'm like, it needs to be done, right? Because it needs to be done. Right. But dominantly it's about perception management. Yes. Yes. Oh, so two, wing three over?Shirley:
I agree with you, because and that's how I originally started out thinking I was a three. But then when I read kind of the both, and I have that, too. So I'm like you Right? Like, I'm across the board, where I said, Okay, I know that I'm a two I tried to be a nine, but I'm really a two. And then I went it went which wings and I was like I can't I'm kind of both. Because I have this perception thing. Like, I have baggy clothes on my porch. And it just drives me crazy. Because like somebody can't come by and see just like you're saying, like, see that? But also when we talk about the subtypes. I was like, Okay, I'm supposed to land on 1am i The one on one of myself prayers, am I? Am I you know what, whichever. And I'm that all divided 33.3 on all of them. So that's the verse the talent verse totality of the two. Yeah, because we're able to like, more than even our environment.Juli Wenger:
Yeah. Which is partially two. And it's partially three chameleon. And I think too, like I was talking about this with Tony, that there's ultimately more like 119 types than nine, which is where this doesn't put us in a box. It's not like oh, well, you have to be a specific subtype. And you have to be a specific type with a specific wing and a specific this and a specific, like, there's so much variety and ability to to shift and move around within the framework, which is good, because ultimately, we are infinite. Because we're created in the image of a creator that's infinite. So there's no system that can like, here's all your tick boxes for who you are every day. And that's it. Plus we move around in terms of how healthy we are emotionally and spiritually and mentally and all of those things, but I just love the variety. And for people who are going like okay subtypes like backup. There's these three subtypes. So self preservation types that are more wired for how do I stay safe social interaction that's looking at the context of them in a larger group, and then sexual or one to one, which is more about like a one on one connection, there's more intimacy, there's more of intensity, typically without type. And they all have their own manifestations for each different type profile. Now, what I've learned so far about subtypes that I love is it's not like your one and not the others. They can stack, they can shift a bit over time. Like, there's lots of flexibility there. And I look at that and like I am a social to, like that big energy. I'm looking around the room and how do I interact with and relate to these larger groups like, but they're in there. So you know, there's definitely a one to one instinct there to that runs up as a second and then self preservation is probably my lowest. I think I actually rank out if I do the testing versus this even, but that's where we can vary and I love that even within the to structure. You and I have so much in common because our lens of the world is fundamentally very similar and our key drivers are the same more or less. But we are also very, very different. Which is also why we can't type people just Gonna keep throwing that out there every episode, don't type other people. Stop it,Shirley:
because you're not. You know, I love that you said that, Julie, because one of the trainings I took that I was on I don't know if you're on this one, but Helen Palmer, we listen to a snippet of what she said. And I was able to put a visual with it. It's kind of like, there's nine personality types. And each person, we all come from these different worldviews economics, one parent to parent, all baby grandpa, like we have all these different, maybe very wealthy, could be very poor, could be middle class, Republican, Democrat, you know, all all of these things, right? have mental health, have wealth, whatever it is, right? What the visual picture that I got, is because I believe every person has a type. But I viewed it as this coat rack. And there's nine different types of coats that are up there. And based on how you live in your world, and you see it, because even my brother and I, we grew up in the same house, we have the same parent, we had the same food went to the same school. Like all of these bullies, we move different, right? Yeah, but the coat that I put on, helped me survive and to be and to thrive. And even even at its weakest point, holds me to get through my relationships. And so instead of people like, that's what I tell people when I talk about Enneagram, because they go really deep into the number, and this is, but you're so much more, you're so much more, but you put this, this code on and the code represents your motive, how do I move through this, my motive, the motive for the two is different for the motive for the three and the motive for the nine is different than the one, you know that what's what's the motive, and, and we all get to go put that code on. And what's even more powerful is you all get to choose, we all get to choose our motive. And so the coat just is signifying that I have a motive. And it's not I'm just not walking around. And I'm a two and a two on my shoe and a two on my hat. You know,Juli Wenger:
I'm so much moreJuli Wenger:
you are, you are more than your type. And that like you have a type, but you are not your type. Right, we said that in type one interview too. It's like you have one. But to circle back in case anyone hasn't been on for the other episode, your personality is a shell, it's a collection of self protective patterns. And then you see the world through them and you interact in the world through them, and they keep you safe. And they help you get your needs met. But they ultimately create this like crusty layer between you and the core of who you are. And so it's like you got to kind of like, open the code up, you know, to get at what's underneath that to get back to the essence of you but without throwing the whole code off. Because it's not going to work out well if we walk into the world and we have no methods of keeping ourselves safe or you know, making sure we get our needs met because that's still fundamentally is a pain.Shirley:
Yes, that is so true. Julie I love I love it when people don't put the heavy weight on on it like that, your view of that because some people just get stuck and I shouldn't be doing this. And I was just in a training with some tools. And we're so different. But yet we processed our our our motive was the same. We don't want to offend. We want to help. We want to do all of that. So whatJuli Wenger:
about eight, your stress slash resource number, tell me how eight shows upShirley:
eight shows up for me. When I am in stress, when I feel things are out of control. And I take the strength of the eight of trying to just make everything black and white, trying to be the lead of everything and take control you were going to do it my way. I then I become very direct in my response, where my two side unhealth is soft and fluffy. But if I'm in stress, and I'm just at your neck, this is what it is. This is what we're doing. No breaks. Very firmJuli Wenger:
claws out, right?Shirley:
Protecting my tribe, doing everything that I do and that's where I go in my stress. I go to eight. Yeah.Juli Wenger:
How do you pull on it when you're not in stress?Shirley:
To tell you the truth? I don't think that I do. Because I want to really well. In my to until I'm stressed like Till I hit my head on the roof, right like until I do, I don't do that, because being in that strengthen the dominance, and I love it about eight my late great dad was an eight and he was strong and strengthened. He said what he meant. And he meant what he said, and that's what it is, and there was no cushion. And to me, that's hard. And so I, I know that I'm at eight, when I've just hit the wall, you know, I ran into the window is no more. And so I don't, intentionally or purposely go towards I fall into it.Juli Wenger:
Mm hmm. Well, and I think that's like as our stress space, when we hit that wall, and we run out of resources to cope, within our core spaces, and even our wings, because we can pull on their coping patterns, when we just run out of it. Or we get triggered into fight flight freeze there is that like, lid flip. And it's like, literally, like claws out. I'm taking control nerf like, and I very much get that too. And this is where it's so fascinating to me, because we're having the double team today of Tunis. how different we are within that context. Because I see and there's a bit of me that still trying to separate or harm, find the harmony between like, what is my social nature, because that social dominance as a subtype can be very big energy. And can be more bold, a more bold version of two versus that soft pad around people pleasing, kind of like, very comfortable Tunis. So I see that like, as a resource, I pull on a I pull a lot of my fire from there. And it's not somewhere I can stay all the time. But it serves me in what I'm called to now could that also be a little bit of a chameleon? Three wing? Possibly, right? Like, you can't actually separate out all the pieces? You can't do it? But what about let's talk about your growth space. Let's talk about for a little bit.Shirley:
Yes, so four is a good space for me to go to I'm going into my good. So that's the space where I'm being creative. I'm thinking out of the box, I'm planning my business, right I'm, I'm thinking of a new logo, I'm I'm cooking things I haven't done before, I'm making sure that I'm different than everyone else, you know, I'm I don't know your vehicles crazy. It was crazy. I'm not a musician. But I looked at my name, what it means in the Hebrew, and it means a song or a poem. So I'm like, and I'm the worst one to carry any of this. But you know what I did, I went out and I purchased a pink ukulele. Because I said, I'm gonna sit here and say to the Lord and my clients, I got the ukulele. It was a wreck. I was like, Oh, I got this one. But I was being creative, right. And Pink is my color. And, and I played it, and I still have it. And I look at it. That's my creativity. That's the space in health, where I'm spending time with God. I have a space, you know, just carved out for me. I don't feel the stressJuli Wenger:
just for me where you don't need to be anything for anyone else. You don't need to do things to be successful at them. Yeah,Shirley:
that's where that's where I go in my, my strength place. I'm creative. I'm helpful. I'm less stressed. I'm not helpful. I'm I'm not in performance and get and give. Yeah, I don't have my bag with me. Going here. I got to give you something. And then here like a trick or treat. Now you feel my backpack up? I'm not that. Yeah. When I met forJuli Wenger:
trick or treat. I love that.Shirley:
That's what it is. Oh,Juli Wenger:
so let's wrap us up with this. What encouragement do you have for other twos who are exploring this whole Enneagram journey?Shirley:
I've would say what I say. I would say if you test as a two or you've, you've been typed as a two or you have a lot of the characteristics that the personality brings for your motive. I would embrace it. I would embrace it, I would see how it is, like God, I would see how it is that none of the other types can move. They can do a little bit, but to have the heart of it to really care and give and support and love and shelter. As a two, I would encourage them to find their a strength, when they need to have that balance to look at what happens when I'm on overload or, and not use an eight as a deficit. But as a strength, like you said, like I could reach up for that when all of when the waves here are just too rocky, you know, to embrace the four part your creative side, you're when you can go into your strengths, your creativity, your your fun as your passions to immerse in those and just really recognize that two is a beautiful gift to be a two is beautiful, like, even even to look at the other ones I I don't know I couldn't be in a good three, I couldn't be a good four, I wouldn't be a good five or seven or eight, nine or even one. But embrace and be proud that you're too. You know what, in the words of James Brown, I'm too and I'm proud that's what I say I do i i am who I am. I appreciate that I'm created this way. This is the jacket that I put on. And I have other modes of operation to draw from whether strength or weakness. It's a good it's a good it's a good soapbox. It's a good stance. It's a good plateau. It's a good thing to be a to love yourself to love yourself.Juli Wenger:
Thank you for doing this with me. ThankShirley:
you for having me. Thank you for having me. I've enjoyed myself I love your face. I love you my sister.Juli Wenger:
There there's our two ending I'm like I just love you so much Virtual hugs I hope this episode triggered something in you and got you thinking about your next growth curve. Make sure to check out the show notes for more details and links to resources or people that we've mentioned today. And make sure you hit follow or subscribe and if you have a hot minute will leave an awesome review. I would be so beyond grateful. Until next time, be too much a dare you