We're calling all over-acheivers in this episode as we talk about boundaries, priorities, success, and the post-pandemic pandemic that is the mental health crisis. Tune in. Burnout is a real thing and we want you out in front of it. Newsflash - your worthiness doesn't lie in your DOING.
Teresa Sabatine is known for advising Mayors, Governors and executives on multi-million dollar business and sales strategies. She’s made an impact throughout her career working with businesses of all sizes -- from startups to the No. 1 brand in the world, Nike.
She led teams and produced, developed, and sold projects for Sony, Lionsgate, Paramount, NBC, and the Global Marketing division at Nike headquarters.
In 2016 she was appointed to create and run a film and television economic and tourism engine for the city of Indianapolis. Within three years she grew the initiative to a $21M enterprise.
Throughout her career in the sports and entertainment industry she was often the only woman at the metaphorical table. She experienced a lot of frustration and harassment and found herself mentoring young women who were trying to make their way in such a toxic environment. At one point she became more excited about the mentorship phone calls than her work as a producer.
In 2016 she decided to go all in on her dream to help women harness their power and build lives and businesses on their terms. Since then she received her coaching certification from Duquesne University and has many hours of training in the areas of change management and emotional agility. She operates a Women of Impact Group Accelerator program for mission-driven female founders looking for mindset and business support as they scale as well as the From Stuck to Clarity 90 day mastermind which enables women to ditch anxiety and step into their authentic power. She also offers private 1:1 coaching.
When she is not in a coaching session with an amazing woman you can find her on a hike with her dog Billy or dreaming up the details of her soon to be women’s liberation flower shop in Austin, Texas.
CONNECT WITH ME
Instagram | Clubhouse | Facebook: @juliwenger
You're on this earth for a purpose. You want to live a life that matters. So let's get through the fear and the overwhelm the knowledge shift that gets in a way you can you living a life. This is the becoming ourselves podcast. So we are fired up about you getting clear on who you are, what you're called to, and how to get there. Because the world is waiting for you show up and own your power. I'm your host, Juli Wenger, a coach, a speaker, a Jesus lover, an enneagram, two and a tree shape. Let's dive into what's keeping you stuck. Because on the other side is the life that's fired up, fulfilled. And today, I am really excited to have my dear friend Teresa on the podcast. And we're gonna have a chat about state of the world around the state of emotional health right now. And one of the things we're chatting about before we hopped on, and started recording was the post pandemic pandemic. So before we jump into that, Teresa, why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are? And what fires you up?Unknown:
Yeah, it's so great to be here, Julie, you fired me up, that's for sure. Your soul and the work that you do? Yeah, I am a mindset performance coach, for women, I feel like what lights me up is really merging emotional intelligence and intellectual intelligence and kind of teaching people to understand that both are equally powerful. I think a lot of times in society, especially for women, and that's just what I know, because I'm a woman. And that's who I work with, predominantly, we're kind of told that our emotions are too much, or our emotions are valid tool to kind of go throughout the world, you know, we're too sensitive, don't be too much. And I think that that over time has been really damaging to that internal trust, and instinctual knowledge about our own cells. And really being able to navigate that system that is there to tell us what we want and what we like and what we want to do and what our boundaries are. And so we kind of have this world where the women don't have the ability to really navigate that as much as they possibly could to really harness their power. And so I'm really passionate about enabling women to do that, because they already have the system, it's just a matter of really learning how to navigate it in order to use it as a tool to get whatever they want for their lives. And I do this both from a burnout recovery perspective. So really helping them recover after being burned to the ground by a lot of work, or often just not being able to be who they are in their lives. And that takes a toll. And then I also do it in business, because you'll find that really passionate people that are doing kind of social impact companies, you know, these enterprises that are taking care of other people of service to others, they, they don't really usually have time or capacity to turn inward and take care of themselves. And so I really help teach them how to do that while still performing excellently right, like while still accomplishing their goals. So that's what like, yeah.Juli Wenger:
So something you just said, got me all fired up. And that was this. women think they're too much, or they're told that they're too much. And one of the things that, for those who have been listening to the podcast will be familiar with but in case there's new people to it, one of the things we've been talking about is this whole concept of be too much. And embracing the too much notice, because what is it anyway? What does too much even mean? And who came up with that story for us of all your emotions, or too much, or you're too loud, or you're too obnoxious or too bold, or to this or to that? We don't say that to guys in the same way that we do to women, right? And I'm curious about specifically the connection that you see between women trying to not be quote unquote, too much, and then heading into burnout, trying to prove that they're enough, but they're not too much and being completely out of alignment with themselves. Yeah,Unknown:
I mean, well, I want to go back to something you just said about where did this story come from? And what I'll tell you, I think that story has come from, or at least personally, for me, it was other people without emotional intelligence and the ability to understand themselves, uncomfortable with my ability to use my emotions to express myself, right? And so it wasn't a matter of them saying like, you're too much of who you are. It was them mirroring back to me, I don't have capacity for you. And that comes really early, right? I was really early in our development, especially as women, but I think as people in general, you know, we know those early years are really important. And they shape how we see the world and the lens that we see the world. And so that, for me has been a really powerful distinction to realize in my adulthood, that what I thought was a me problem was actually another problem. Like that's their problem. They can't navigate their emotions and feel comfortable expressing themselves and be able to hold space for other people to express themselves like that's on them, right? And that doesn't mean they're bad. It just means that it's a reflection of their own stuff. Yes, it just means that like, shoot, I don't have to accommodate this, I am who I am. And I'm not doing anything wrong by being in full expression of who I am, right. But to answer your question about burnout, what I see is the really deep social economic conversation, but at a high level, the sense of belonging we get from the validation of, oh, wow, look at what she can do. Oh, wow, look how available she is. You know, I was just having a conversation with a client yesterday, she has been praised since she was 16. And maybe before that, for going above and beyond always for being dependable for being reliable. I mean, her teachers, her parents, for her, her bosses throughout her career, this is a woman in her mid 30s. Talking about, wow, she'll do it, just call her she'll do it, just call her she'll handle it. And when that becomes our identity, and the narrative that says, Oh, these people love me, because I can these people love me because I do these people love me because I show up for them. What happens when our capacity shifts, we have a transition in our life, or we change our mind. And we decide that we want to shrink our capacity for others and focus inward or we have a baby or we have a sick parent. And suddenly, all this identity that we've been showing up in the world hasn't getting validated for has to shift that feels like Julie, what it feels like is it is a death of who we are. And it feels to our nervous system as if it's dangerous to change the way we've been showing up because if we change, will we still belong? Will those people still want us around? Will they still hire us? Will they still admire us? Will they still pay us? Right? So it's this sense of security and stability that our nervous system, since it happened since we were little that's the narrative, it's going Whoa, whoa, whoa, we can't shrink our capacity for others and give more to ourselves. Because that's dangerous. And that's why it feels so hard. Right?Juli Wenger:
Yeah. And from an enneagram, and psychological perspective there. There are specific types of people to where that becomes more of an identification, we talk about the over identifications of self that we make. And I'm thinking as an example here, enneagram, threes, performers and achievers, their narrative they take on when they're little is I am valuable. Or when I am valuable, then I get love. When I show that I can achieve, then I get love. And I get affirmation, and there's a hardwired character structure there. But how much we attach to that. And over attached to that is the very informed by our environment. And then we start to take on and layer on these behavior patterns. Because we think that who we are, is this valuable achieving person, or this helpful person or this loyal person, or this responsible person or this person that's in control. And we all have these different identification statements, but they actually don't represent who we are. They represent a set of patterns, about how we find that belonging and how we find that love. So you're 100%, right? In terms of, you know, when we let go of that, or we start to detach from that, our ego was like, What the fuck, we're not doing this, this is not, this is not safe, I have no frame of reference for how I'm enough or how I'm lovable outside of this, and I'm so focused on getting my value from outside of me that I don't know how to find it internally, if I let go of this identificationUnknown:
well, and it's also about recalibrating, right, oftentimes, it's funny, I am such an emotionally driven person, meaning like, my EQ is a lot higher. Well, I don't know, I have not tested it, but it feels in my existence that my EQ is a lot higher than anything else. And I have been attracting lately, these very logical, almost scientific, linear thinkers as my clients, which is just fascinating to me. And so I try to use this terminology, they can relate to kind of like engineering and software terminology of like, Listen, it's not necessarily that we need to remove this part of your identity. That's not what we're saying. Even though your nervous system feels like that Don't do this. It's harmful. We've seen a recalibrate where we use it when we use it, how it shows up how we want it to show up. It's an opportunity. I think that's what can be really daunting when we're in burnout is that we feel like one maybe there's no end in sight, and this is just how I have to feel. And number two, when people start talking to you about changing, you're like, Whoa, this feels like dangerous, like, What do you mean? And how do I navigate that? And I always say, Listen, this is an opportunity, right? Like if we can think about this as just a way to get you back in the driver's seat, and really be able to say, I choose every moment of my life, I choose how I want to show up, I choose how I want my relationships to look, I choose how I'm going to respond. I choose how I want to feel at work, how much I'm going to work like, this is power that you get back. Once you have the awareness that Julie, you're talking about, about how it's kind of built up in your system?Juli Wenger:
Well, it's a superpower, I think this is the thing that we miss, especially when we're in a state of burnout and overwhelmed because everything feels big, and everything feels like it's out of control. And like it's a swirling vortex. But the thing that we really need to clue into, and I mean, this is fun, because you and I are wired very similarly. Yeah, it's got the, the nurturing or the taken care of or, you know, the things that lead us into over giving and our own form of burnout are also the things that when we take that driver's seat back from our ego, and we throw our ego in the backseat, we're not leaving it behind, because it's a part of us, and we need it, we need something that's going to keep us safe. But we take the driver's seat back when we say okay, I'm going to leverage this thing my superpower exists in the nurturing my superpower exists in holding space, my superpower exists in that emotional intelligence, and EQ that's very naturally wired for us, without over attaching to it as this is who I am. And I need to go prove it every damn day.Unknown:
Yeah. And I mean, eventually, it doesn't matter. You know, I'm seeing women in their 30s start to have the breakdown where like, they've hit a wall, and they can't perform at that caliber, because it was never human anyway, like the way that they were navigating it. But it can happen at any age. I mean, for me, it happened when my mom passed away, and I was 22. Because literally, the whole world got shattered. And so that's when it started to unravel. And then there was also like a dynamic of now I have no one that loves me right in my mind, because this huge compass of mine in this nurture piece was gone. So then trying to find that love everywhere else and find that belonging everywhere else. And so I've been navigating this for over a decade, 15 years, it feels like, and some people don't come to this till they're 3040 5060. I mean, we don't necessarily know when you're going to come to a head and start doing this work, I do find that what I'm realizing in my work with clients is I'm here for you when you're burnt out, and I'm here for you to get you recovered. But we could actually get to this before it gets there, right? I think you're talking about that, too, is like, actually, if we could just fundamentally teach everyone how to navigate this with the tools that I think both you and I have, which are probably similar and different. And the approaches that we have, if you can learn this before you hit a roadblock before it gets urgent before it gets bad, it can still transform your life in the exact same way. You just don't have to go through as much of the rain and agony and exhaustion that we get to when we just get to a point where we have to do something about it.Juli Wenger:
Yeah, where we can leapfrog over some of those challenges and learn from the people who have gone through that because you and I both faced our own versions of burnout. And even if we look at the collection of clients that we've been able to serve between the two of us, and we see people who are landing themselves in the hospital, we see people who are really struggling with mental health issues, we see people who are earlier on the curve, and they've seen other people go through that and are like, okay, I want to skip this phase. So can I borrow your map? Can you teach me can you mentor me? Can you help me just shortcut some of this stuff where you know, you still have your own stuff you have to go through but not all of it. Or you can learn from those experiences. So let's tie in here to the post pandemic pandemic. Yeah.Unknown:
Oh, so much to say I it's so funny. It's so funny. We're having this interview today because I just I write a newsletter to my my women every week, I have a community and I try to tie in both what I'm going through and what I'm seeing what my clients are experienced. And then also what the world is saying and how it's showing up for women are not showing up for women really. And I saw a really great leader on LinkedIn last week share an article where they had gotten press, I can't remember that press outlet. But anyway, they were really excited because they got mentioned for their mental health week. And they were like we're fighting burnout by giving our teams mental health weeks a whole week off, like look at us. And I was really excited because I thought well, here's a tech company that's using the term mental health which is number one, a huge barrier, right? So they're talking about it and they're using the correct terminology. So awesome. Number To like a week, you know what, for tech company, that's actually pretty huge. That should get press. Number three, what happens next y'all. So you give these people a week, to what be their families go fishing. Great. Understandable. That's excellent. I'm really I want to commend you. And now what, because this is not something that gets solved in a week, mental health can't be solved in a week, burnout can't be solved in a week, it is needs to be a fundamental shift in the way we are operating in the world and relating to each other when it comes to our value and our work and performance and what is expected of us, and how we see what is expected of us. There's so much there. And so for me, all the stats are coming out. So now we have the research, right? That that's one of the fundamental things about societal shift is like, first, we have to say, What is the problem? What are we measuring, and so now we're measuring it, we know that mental health is on the decline, we know it's extraordinarily on the decline in the past two years, we know that 95% of employees across the country, according to the latest research, are thinking about leaving their job, or changing their job, and 32% of them are citing burnout is the reason, okay. So fundamentally, this is a problem, we cannot say that it isn't. But what I'm seeing is, these Band Aid solutions of saying it's time off, all we need is time off, that's just not gonna do it, Julie, but what can do it is the work that you and I and many other coaches are doing around this kind of navigating our internal emotional system and understanding ourselves better and getting that power back. And that's something that companies can actually hire people to help with, for not an extraordinary cost compared to the cost of turnover, which, depending on the company salary can be between 75,000, upwards to 200,000, to just replace orbitally. It's exorbitant. And that's like not sea level, right? We're just talking about, you know, mid director level people that you'd have to replace, to try to create a new, you know, to fund the pipeline. So this is both an economics problem, but it's also a, I think it's a national crisis, if I want to call it that, I'm goingJuli Wenger:
to I would call it an international crisis. Yeah, I'm just gonna throw that out there. Because we're in two different countries. I mean, maybe it's more of a western world crisis, Western culture crisis. But this is something that we're seeing cross the border, I think it's been building for a long time, but the disconnection and the grief cycle, and the loss of control, and all of the different pieces, combined with this ongoing cycle of hits, honestly, has really tested people's resilience. And one thing I just wanted to tie in real quick, because I'm, like, preach, like I'm just gonna be quiet let you talk. But there's also this piece of how do we relate to others? Yes? And how are we learning to relate to ourselves? Because that's a piece that is so lacking, and can contribute to so much of this proving and burnout building energy, we have to start to shift the narrative of how are we connecting with ourselves? And how are we showing love and compassion to ourselves? And there's this question that comes up my brains kind of all over the place here. And there's this question that comes up of Okay, you give employees a week off? Do they even know what to do with that? Now, you know, if they are achiever, I'm driven by the value that I bring, or I'm driven by affirmation, or I don't get my value from operating in that kind of energy. You give those people off, and they're like, what do I do with myself?Unknown:
Also, we have to understand that burnout is an addictive cycle. Okay. So what the body is doing is it's actually addicted to the work, it's addicted to the validation, okay? addiction is addiction. I don't care if we're talking about alcohol, drugs, performance, whatever it is, and I'm not saying addiction with a stigma. I'm not saying like, oh, there's something wrong with you, you're addicted to work. Like I want to be very clear. It is like a logically it's giving you a hit, because you're getting the affirmation and that validation back and it's like, Okay, I'm enough. And you get the dopamine release in your brain. Yes. So that's what I mean, when addiction, I'm talking about the scientific process of what is happening in your brain, not any kind of stigma word related to addiction, and that you have a problem that you need, you know, but that's not what I'm saying. That's a really good point. So scientifically, your body isn't an addiction cycle. And what happens when you actually step out of that cycle, which is the burnout cycle in this case, is that your body is going to need recovery time and it's actually going to be weaning itself off of what has kept you in that cycle, right? Just like you would stop using alcohol and your body would get sick and detox. The recovery. Looks like you can pull In total exhaustion, so you thought you were exhausted when you're burnout, you go take a month sabbatical, that entire month, you're going to be in and out of bed, like Carrie Bradshaw and the Sex and the City movie where the shades are getting shot, and your friends are coming in to check on you, and you can't even pick your head up off the pillow. That's what burnout, recovery can look like when you come out of a cycle. And you've been in it for a long time, because your body is literally going, Oh, suddenly, there's all this space in time, I need to heal my organs, I need to get all of my circadian rhythm back, because it's been all off, I need to restore it. And it's not getting the dopamine hit. And so it's actually looking for the other ways to get to get that kind of feeling in its body. And it's resting, it's recuperating. So what we do when we just give people a Mental Health Week is we give them just enough time to start to let their body recover. And then we bring them right back into the environment that made them sick. And I'm not saying we need to go take six months off, although I often will tell my clients when you think you need an inch, you need a frickin mile. So just be prepared. Well, this process, yes, it's a long process. But what it also is, is changing the way we work. And what I think is so comical sometimes when I'm having these conversations is that people will say to me, Well, I like producing a lot. I like accomplishment. And I go Oh, I'm sorry, you think that by me telling you to work differently that I'm telling you, you're going to produce less. Actually, what we know from the science and from working with hundreds of clients and coaches all over the world working with 1000s and millions of them is that you actually have better performance when you're working the way we're talking about. Yep. And that's the narrative we need to shift and in society and in culture overall, is that like, actually, there's not going to be a time where we perform less, we're only going to increase our performance capabilities, but in also, at the same time, increase our overall health and wellness. And that's only going to propel us to a different level of performance that we don't even know we're capable of. That's what's so wonderful, Julie is that these people come through my burnout recovery, they come through these this coaching model, and they are performing everything they've ever wanted is coming true and with a sense of ease. And they will message me for months, six months later and go oh my god, another thing just happened that we wrote down a year ago. Oh my god, another thing just what's happening? What's happening? Why is this so easy. And I'm like, it's because we tweet, your performance, right? We went in there, we recalibrated you. And this is actually what you're capable of. You just don't have to be killing yourself to get these results. So that's really what I think is important about this. And then of course, if we're talking about the pandemic, let's just talk about the grief of, of the world, the amount of lives we've lost the amount of fear that has been pushed into our veins in the new cycle. And everywhere we turn something to be afraid of something be scared of no stability, no anger, no leadership that has really been able to step in and say, Hey, everything's gonna be okay. And this is what we're going to do. I mean, everyone has tried, our leaders are human, some are less human than others. But from a global perspective, I think we have I think we have leaders that really are trying, but they're human too. And they haven't dealt with this. And so there's so much instability, Julie. And just as someone who knows instability, so well from losing my mom to cancer and having her sick and growing up in a house where we were afraid all the time that something bad happening of death of something going wrong of cancer coming back, living in that state is so hard on us, it's so hard. So I just want to say give yourself grace, if you're feeling off kilter, give yourself grace. If you're feeling more emotion, if your emotions are more on your sleeve than there used to be, you're not as patient because you've literally been dealing with the grief of a world you know, I think grief of a nation because I live in the US. But like you're right, Juli, this is a global grieving of the way we used to live the way we used to operate. And then then all these people that have been sick and dying, that we've had to watch and have no control over nothing to fit, we can't fix it. We just have to sit here with our hands, you know, sitting on our hands going, Oh gosh, when can we just feel different? When are people going to be safe. So that has a huge impact on the way that we feel, especially because energy does not have borders or boundaries. We are feeling the energy of Australia, of Italy of Canada, no matter where you are in the world. It is not lost on your system and your nervous system in your heart, that these things are happening to everybody, right? We know it's getting better. We know that things are starting to take shape a little differently. But that doesn't mean that the resonant effect of what happened and that you have the opportunity to have grace for yourself to just say like yeah, I feel this way and, and there's good reason, right?Juli Wenger:
That's been one of the most interesting and profound, ongoing conversations that I'm having with people and with clients is around really acknowledging emotion, and learning, self compassion, and really leaning into, it's okay to feel it, I'm feeling it's okay to be angry, it's okay to be sad, it's okay to have those big emotions, and really starting to learn about them to learn that emotions are data that our emotions are supposed to be temporary, that they're there to tell us something to inform our system to be processed. And we have this pattern. And they think that this has really contributed for a lot of people to this emotional exhaustion and this burnout that we're talking about. So many of us have this pattern, especially when we're told our emotions are too much, or they're too big, or they're not helpful, or they're not reliable, or they're not whatever, that we tried to burry them, when we stuffed them. And where the science is on that is that our body is not meant to just have all of this emotional energy stuffed and stored. So it leaks out. And it manifests in other ways. And the impact of that, and the physical exhaustion, or the mental fog, or there's all of these, everything from digestive issues to just like mental health issues, too. It goes and goes and goes and goes. And learning to create the space to be able to really sit with those things and to feel those things and to say no, it's not too much. But there's something here that I need to pay attention to. And to process and to allow to move through and get metabolized. so that it can go so I can take the lesson from it so I can take the information from it. And then it can go has been such a powerful shift in so many people, that then gives them some freedom or some energy back to be able to say, Okay, I'm going to fill up my bucket a little bit so that I have enough resilience, I have enough capacity to continue to step up and step forward in a world that is continually challenging. And in a world that and where we are right now. It is as bad with COVID cases and fourth wave, as we have seen ever. And so it's interesting because depending on where we are globally, we're in different phases of this thing. But locally, we're starting to see teenagers that are passing away from this thing, which initially was not the case. And that hits differently. And we're starting to see more and more polarity as people hit deeper levels of emotional exhaustion as people hit deeper levels of burnout from dealing with this for so long. And maybe not having the capacity or the self awareness in the beginning to deal with it well, two years ago, let alone now. So there is not only the physical impact of this thing, but we're starting to see people show up with less and less compassion and understanding for each other we're starting to see people get more almost was a violent in terms of their opinions. And I think that makes it harder to cope with all of this. And you combine that in with all of the race issues and systemic oppression issues that we're seeing happen at the same time and the polarity from that, I don't think that I have seen a world that is so polarized, as in the last few years, you compound that with COVID. And sometimes it feels like people are losing sight of humanity, of shared humanity and of being able to be love. And that can be really draining and hard toUnknown:
well, you hit on so much stuff there delay, but what I'll say that's coming up for me, as I hear you talk is this less safe spaces. So what we're talking about here, fundamentally is the breakdown of community and belonging. And so when we have this polarization and when we have these decisive ways of communicating and you know, our our country, America definitely led that. I mean, we definitely led that and you know, from 2016 to now then we created a divide that then, I know was a ripple effect around the world because my international friends were telling me like what's going on your country they were asking me so in that way well What we've done is we've actually reduced the number of safe spaces people have to go just feel calm, safe, loved, protected, seen, heard, understood. And that includes our social media that includes, you know, we don't we can't go to our community events, we can't go to our churches, we can't go to our you know, I remember living in New York City for some time, and we we'd walk out your street on a Saturday, and there would be a food festival of international cuisine, and there'd be people from all over the world and belly dancers and different vendors. And that would just happen, right? And that is fundamentally what has broken down in the COVID times is this sense of like, I can find belonging most places no matter where I am, and it's safe where that is. So even if there is a polarization and we do have these extreme right wing thinkers or these extreme left liberal thinkers, you know, as they call them in society, you know, you're not going to go where that might exist because that's what we're you feel safe and you belong. But you know, what your church brings you, you know, what your community center brings you, you know, what your office brings you like the watercooler, you might have that great co worker that you love that just you go to lunch with once a week, like all of these touch points of belonging and safety. And reminding us that there's somewhere we can go always I mean, I joke with some of my friends of like, I'm building a second company right now, and I'm building it really slow. But like, I literally want the space to be just like the cheer song, like where you can come where everybody knows your name. And I think that's because we've lost that. And, I mean, it's really hard. And that's what we've looked to leadership to from the past, right, like in the past, these international and presidents and, you know, leaders have been able to, you know, you think of the reason everybody loved JFK, I mean, for his policies or not, he brought our nation together around a fundamental belief by some of the policies, he was able to get across in the way that he spoke and the way that he brought people together, emotionally. And we don't have that right now. I mean, as a really simple example, President Biden sent out letters, I mean, who knows what it was, you know, I mean, it came from his office, it was a physical letter I received in the mail, and it was so old school and so simple. And it was stating how much COVID relief funds I should have been receiving by this point where I could go if I had received them. And then he outlined from his promises in the beginning of the campaign, and what policies had already been placed, like where what had already been passed, and what they've accomplished, and where I could go to find out how those policies might be affecting me positively or negatively. Julie, I can't tell you, when I received that letter, I like had a sigh of relief. There was no information in there that I didn't already know, I already knew the status of my, you know, pandemic relief funds. I have an accountant. But just receiving a letter from the president telling me that this is how he's delivered on what he said he was going to do, and basically wishing me health and vitality. It was like I was it was a great gift. It just felt like oh, somebody is watching out for me. And you don't have to love his policy. You don't have to think he's grace president. I don't care what your politics are. But receiving correspondence from someone saying, I'm thinking about you, I'm working hard on your behalf to make you feel safer, is profoundly impactful at a time like this. And that's what our priests in our in our preachers used to do for us. That's what our community leaders used to do our council women and men, our bosses at work our managers, and we've just had a lot of time without that and know where to go to be like, this is where I feel good and safe. And this is where I always know that I can go no matter what to be myself and get a hug and feel like I belong to something and that somebody cares about me. And that I think has been a huge challenge.Juli Wenger:
Absolutely. And it makes me think about six basic human needs, which is a Tony Robbins framework and love them or not, those frameworks always been super simple and accessible. And there are six things that we need, need love and connection. We need to be able to make a contribution, we need growth, we need security or certainty. We need a variety. And what is the other one? I always forget the sixth one and different orders anyway. The certainty piece. Yeah, where safety comes from, and the love and connection piece of significance, what's the other one, but the love and connection piece. Those two combined have been so severely impacted by the change in how we are essentially allowed to interact with each other. That our fundamental need for safety even just at a subconscious and ego level is being so consistently threatened like we're living in the state of being threatened continually, that it's really no wonder that people are struggling. And I mean, I say people are struggling like I struggle to. And I think that's important for us to talk about is, it's not like, Oh, well, I'm more resilient than you, because I'm a coach and bla bla bullshit. If anyone is saying they have not struggled, or they have not had difficult days or weeks or months, or you know, there hasn't been some sort of trauma impact or grief impact of this thing, I'm just going to call bullshit right now. Because it has been a thing, it has been challenging. Now I can look at it too, and see, so many gifts, and so many blessings in this period, and so many things that I would not trade. And that's great. And that contributes to me filling my bucket backup so that I can maintain a resilience and so I can continue to show up. But it has been hard.Unknown:
I do want to point out, going back to the beginning of what you said is there. What's really important here, at least in my work, because I do a lot of work social economically, is that we understand that this is what black America has always had to deal with. Yeah, like, this is what lower socio economic demographics have always had to deal with instability, lack of trust in a system, lack of community, lack of resources, you know, environment. And so I'm not saying that we don't get to have grace for ourselves, of course I am. Because of this is the first time it's like, it's always saying, like, oh, someone else has worse problems than me, my problems aren't real. That's not what I'm saying. But I think the gift that I'm hearing in this and the gift that I'm seeing in this is that finally, maybe point 0000 1% more, you can understand what those particular groups of people that have been trying to get us to wake up to how they've had to experience the world. Maybe we know a little bit more about that now based on the instability and lack of trust we've been able to have in the system, and then our leaders and in our communities. And so that, to me is like a fundamental awareness that I really want everyone to really think about is how you've been feeling for the past two years. No matter where you sit in the world, people live like that every day. COVID are no COVID. And so this is an opportunity for us to go Oh, okay. I mean, some of us are already doing stuff about that. And of course, there's always leaps and bounds that we can be making in our work. But this is also an opportunity for us not to ignore that the light has been shined in that way. And in my work with women, I mean, the toll of black women and the emotional labor they've been doing in our country, specifically, in the past two years, and I mean their whole lives. But for generations, but especially now, when they've had to navigate a world where they can't talk about being too much, they can't be all of who they are, because it's not safe, it's actually physically not safe, nor is it safe for their sons and their children. And so there's something really important there, that now that we've had this, this kind of like curtain back on what those people have to deal with every day, I really, really, really pray all the time that we do not go back to the ignorance we had before that about what it was like to know that that was going on, and to realize that we have an opportunity collectively as communities to do something about that and to utilize and, and mobilize our resources to try to create more equity, you know, equality across the board, in our communities. Because what we've learned these past couple of years, especially here, and you know, I don't know what's going on everywhere else is that, number one, nothing is distributed equally. And of course, that might be some kind of unicorn ideal for society. But I really don't think so. But also number two, that we really can't depend on the government, this might need to be a privatized corporate, I mean, we've seen the corporation showing up the ones that actually have that have said that they were going to do something and have done it change their policies shifted the way they work shifted the way they recruit all of that, we've seen that the private privatization of this is actually potentially the way that we can make make progress way quicker. And actually solve these problems, which is a lot of what the entrepreneurs I'm working with are doing is they're on the ground, creating companies that solve the social economic problems much more efficiently and quickly than the government that we can no longer depend on because we've lost trust in our leaders because they've been, you know, they just have been untrustworthy. We don't know who's, who's what and who's with who and who's funding what and what's going on. And that's really destabilizing, but I think the opportunity here is to say, it's not that we can never trust our government again, it's just that like, wow, the private sector has a lot of economy here and a lot of power, and a We can utilize that for good look at how the world can change. I mean, we saw some privatization of COVID relief happening and how quickly that stuff got off the ground because people were mobilizing with their private dollars and the private institutions. So there's a real opportunity here. And I think we've been all fighting for government, especially here in America to solve these problems for us. And don't get me wrong, we still need to vote policies into action, we still see policies being voted into action that are harming people. And I'm not saying we stop addressing that. But what I am saying is we can build these Coalition's on our own without the politicians and we can get a lot of shit done. And it's,Juli Wenger:
well, here's the thing, so of three things, and then we're going to have a closer up here soon, but a I am down for unicorn idealism every single day. And I would add that it's not only an opportunity, but it is a responsibility for us to act and for us to opt in. And I've been seeing a lot of posting, and I've been seeing a lot in conversations with the black community, the indigenous communities, that there is this white fatigue, you know, from the supposed white people awakening of 2020, or it's like, yeah, I'm going to opt in for a bit, but then it's going to get too tiring, or it's going to get too hard, or it's going to feel too inconvenient, or I'm going to get challenged one too many times. And I'm going to check back out. And we cannot do that. Because you're right, the government. I mean, here's the issue with the government. And we won't get too deep into this, but it is built around oppressive policy. Yeah, so for them to try to change it, it runs so deep. And it is so structural, that like, I'm not opposed to let's, you know, dismantle these structures that are keeping people oppressed. And I recognize that this is a complicated, and, you know, multi layered thing. So for us to approach this from outside and create change from an individual level, and a community organization level and a corporate level, and companies, and if we can create enough momentum, and enough people who are bought into really changing the narrative, if we can get enough, I'm just gonna call out all my white people that are listening to this. If we can all do our own research, instead of putting the burden on these populations to educate us and tell us, you know, here are all of the things you can do. Like, yes, we need to listen to the black community, we need to listen to the indigenous peoples of Canada and the United States, in terms of you know, what will fix this, because we're not going to walk in with our white savior complex and try to fix an issue because that is perpetuating the same thing. And there is so much that we can learn by actually reading the books, there's so much we can learn by actually listening to the podcast, by being in community by going to events. It's so eye opening, and it's very challenging. I mean, I won't sugarcoat that, it is hard for my heart to read some of these stories, and to have my eyes open, especially lately, because I'd very much started with, you know, Black Lives Matter. And how does that impact Canada was showing up in the states and being vocal about that. And as I've done more and more research, our we have issues with racism within multiple communities in Canada, like 800%, and the systemic issues around the indigenous peoples. Yeah, is it's mind bogglingly horrid up here. And there's so much I didn't know. And it's hard to reconcile that it's hard to reconcile and identity where I was a proud Canadian. And now I'm going and what does that even mean? And yeah,Unknown:
and that happened to all of us in 2010. I mean, it was happening for me both for that, but came to a head and you know, I want to bring it full circle, Julie, because there's some emotional capacity, this internal work this, this this stuff we've been talking about since the beginning of like understanding our EQ, navigating our internal nervous system, knowing how to regulate ourselves, moving through our emotions, sitting with them. That's the work that has to be done in order for you to open up your capacity to do these other things. And I'm not saying it's if then this but what I am saying is, if you're feeling completely burned out by the information that has been revealed to you over the course of the past 24 months, and all the reading and all of the trauma, of course, yes. And these tools that Julie and I are talking about this way of being this way of regulating this taking time to sit and really understand yourself and learn. This is not only Going to help you regulate yourself through that. But also it is going to accelerate your capability of showing up for these communities and making the changes that you know that you want for the people that you love and care about. And so this is fundamental to every aspect of it, whether you want to have better performance at work, whether you want to be a better community member, whether you want to be an advocate, whether you want to be a mama, whether you want to be a dad, whether you want to be whatever it is you want to do, this work bleeds into every area, and it will literally help you in every area. And that is what I think is the individual individualistic call, right? This is your individual power that you can harness that is going to have a ripple effect on everyone, you know, and every problem in our society 100%.Juli Wenger:
Yeah, we are more called and more powerful than we give ourselves credit for. Yeah, full stop. Yeah. I love chatting with you.Unknown:
Yeah, no, thank you for having me this.Juli Wenger:
I could probably talk for a whole entire week. So we'll plan to have Theresa back on the podcast at some point here. But any final closing thoughts for people in terms of taking care of their mental health? Yeah, youUnknown:
know, I always say to people that are doing this work for the first time that are feeling emotionally leveraged, right, or feeling things they haven't felt before high anxiety, a lot of people use the word anxiety with me. So I'm just going to use that word that might be what you describe it as, as the listener. I always say when you're trying to navigate this and slow down and live a different way, because your system is telling you that how you've been operating is obviously not working. Because you're having physical and emotional symptoms, I want you to just find one person in your life, that is a safe space for you to express what you're feeling and be try on different ways of coping with it. So that can of course be someone like me, or Julie or an amazing therapist, or even like, I have a client, a therapy client who offers group support, right? Like she has a group therapy support online. So you don't even have to like go do dig into group therapy all by yourself for the first time in that community piece. But find someone and somewhere where you can start to make these little changes and lean into your emotion and learn to understand it and navigate these tools. Because if you only have yourself to depend on, you will not be able to move through it safely. Because it's just, it's just too hard. It's just too hard. And it can be a best friend that just receives those text messages that you don't know how to send to anyone else. But you know, she's expecting them or he's expecting them. It can be your partner, it can be your parent, it can be a professional. But when you are feeling this way, it is so important that you at least find one safe space to express and really move through what you're feeling and to make the changes to make your life better, because it's going to help you so much and if you can do that at a minimum. It will definitely catapult you to the next level. But of course there are many more resources available to you beyond just having someone that you can talk.Juli Wenger:
I hope this episode triggered something in you and got you thinking about your next growth curve. Make sure to check out the show notes for more details and links to resources or people that we've mentioned today. And make sure you hit follow or subscribe and if you have a hot minute we'll leave an awesome review. I would be so beyond grateful. Until next time be too much. I dare you