Becoming Ourselves - The Podcast

Firestorm and Storm's Fireside Chat with Craig Anderson

August 18, 2021 Juli Wenger Season 1 Episode 56
Becoming Ourselves - The Podcast
Firestorm and Storm's Fireside Chat with Craig Anderson
Chapters
Becoming Ourselves - The Podcast
Firestorm and Storm's Fireside Chat with Craig Anderson
Aug 18, 2021 Season 1 Episode 56
Juli Wenger

What happens when two superhero's sit down for a "real talk" chat about jumping out of old roles and into new ones? This right here. If you struggle with imposter syndrome, BUCKLE UP. 

BIO:
Craig P. Anderson is a Leadership Confidence Coach and the founder of Clear Path Coaching and Consulting. He works with new leaders who come from non-traditional business backgrounds, struggle with their new leadership role, and find themselves stressed and second-guessing themselves. After working with Craig, they feel more confident and competent with their decision-making, leadership skills, and less stress. 

Craig has over 25 years of leadership roles in Fortune 500 companies and successfully grew a small business to $5 million in revenue in three years. He considers himself an Accidental Executive who came to corporate America with an English degree, little business background, and more passion for geeky things than EBITDA. Craig focused on what made the companies he worked for so successful so he could excel in those areas to be successful. But for years, he struggled with a lack of confidence because he didn’t share his colleagues’ in-depth business background. Over time with experience, coaching, and a relentless desire to succeed, he moved into national leadership roles and experienced great success. 

Craig holds a Bachelor’s Degree in English and a Master’s Degree in Higher Education from the University of Florida. He is an ACC Certified Coach through the International Coaching Federation. He is also certified in the One Page Business Plan and the Core Values Index. You can learn more about Craig and Clear Path Coaching and Consulting at clearpathcoaches.com. 


MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
Linked In:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigpanderson/
Website:
https://clearpathcoaches.com/
FB Group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/clearpathleadersforum 


CONNECT WITH ME
Instagram | Clubhouse | Facebook: @juliwenger
https://www.juliwenger.com/

Show Notes Transcript

What happens when two superhero's sit down for a "real talk" chat about jumping out of old roles and into new ones? This right here. If you struggle with imposter syndrome, BUCKLE UP. 

BIO:
Craig P. Anderson is a Leadership Confidence Coach and the founder of Clear Path Coaching and Consulting. He works with new leaders who come from non-traditional business backgrounds, struggle with their new leadership role, and find themselves stressed and second-guessing themselves. After working with Craig, they feel more confident and competent with their decision-making, leadership skills, and less stress. 

Craig has over 25 years of leadership roles in Fortune 500 companies and successfully grew a small business to $5 million in revenue in three years. He considers himself an Accidental Executive who came to corporate America with an English degree, little business background, and more passion for geeky things than EBITDA. Craig focused on what made the companies he worked for so successful so he could excel in those areas to be successful. But for years, he struggled with a lack of confidence because he didn’t share his colleagues’ in-depth business background. Over time with experience, coaching, and a relentless desire to succeed, he moved into national leadership roles and experienced great success. 

Craig holds a Bachelor’s Degree in English and a Master’s Degree in Higher Education from the University of Florida. He is an ACC Certified Coach through the International Coaching Federation. He is also certified in the One Page Business Plan and the Core Values Index. You can learn more about Craig and Clear Path Coaching and Consulting at clearpathcoaches.com. 


MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
Linked In:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigpanderson/
Website:
https://clearpathcoaches.com/
FB Group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/clearpathleadersforum 


CONNECT WITH ME
Instagram | Clubhouse | Facebook: @juliwenger
https://www.juliwenger.com/

Juli Wenger:

Welcome to the becoming ourselves podcast where we believe that you were created on purpose with purpose and for a purpose. I'm Juli Wenger, an empowerment and identity coach and enneagram. Two committed to helping you step out of overwhelm perfectionism and self sabotage, listening to learn how to take back your power, uncover the stories and patterns that keep you small and lean in to living your most powerful, purposeful and passionate life. Let's dive in. Okay, so today on the podcast, we have my friend Craig Anderson, and Craig and I first I think connected over superheroes. Yes, we did. Yes, we're in it. Together, right? Yeah, we're doing this intro call. And we had to do the like, show something random and interesting about you. And I think I pulled out my Rainbow Dash that's on my desk. And because it's like my spirit pony, cuz I'm more paid all the time. And she's also very quick, and I'm a mom. So you know, it's fun. Anyway, so Craig pulls out. It's like, custom. What do you say about it?

Unknown:

He's commissioned nation art commissioned comic book art of Firestorm. who's one of my favorite superheroes. So yeah, and I was like,

Juli Wenger:

we're gonna get along. Dude. It's cool. Yeah,

Unknown:

yeah, there you go. Yeah. And you inspired me to now make every victory is now my Firestorm meme. So yeah, it works out. Yes.

Juli Wenger:

So I wanted to have Craig on the podcast, both because he's fun. And we have a good time. And also, because he has a really interesting journey. So what has shifted for you, in the last few years, because you've gone from like, you know, working for the man or the big job to coaching and impact, and I'm just gonna let you start telling us about it. And then I'll randomly cut you off and tell you what I think.

Unknown:

Excellent. Well, I can do that. And then it's almost like what hasn't happened in the last few years since I decided to do this, or was thrust into this path, however you want to look at it? Yeah, it's, it's been an interesting journey. I call myself the accidental executive, because I really never meant to be what I am, or what I became I was, I was a guy who got an English degree in college, from the University of Florida. And, and I thought I was going to be an English teacher. That was it. But I had this job in the financial aid office that I really enjoyed as a student. And I said, Well, maybe this is what I want to do. So I went off and did that career path, and started out working on the college and university side. And then I got married. And the whole thing was, well, you know, someone's not going to work. When we have a kid, someone's going to stay home with the kids. And of course, I felt like, well, that has to be me. So for whatever reason, it was 1994, you'll forgive me, but we decided it would be me. And so I said, Well, I don't make any money doing this. So I got to switch over to the corporate side. So I switched over to the corporate side. And you know, turned out I was really good at sales and did sales through that for many years. And somehow or another, I found myself as a senior vice president, at Sallie Mae and Chase, full disclosure, I was in the student loan industry, so we can all pile on student loans. And, and people do, I will just say, at the end of my career, before I shifted to coaching, I started a business that helps students repay their loan. So I did balance my karma bet. But I was and this is where, you know, kind of the accidental executive thing and the imposter syndrome kicked in, you know, I'm sitting at this table with these people, you know, on the 14th floor at chase with like the senior execs. And here I am with this English degree, like, I don't know, I should be here, right? And it was the imposter syndrome was there for so many years. Because what the heck am I doing here with my English trigger? We're not talking about, you know, Dryden and Pope or the scarlet letter, we're talking about credit underwriting, and we're talking about volume forecasts and all this crazy stuff. And so, if I did well, I was rewarded. I you know, when I finally kind of realized that it was a long journey, that you know, that I was at that table for a reason. And the reason wasn't because I knew what EBIT da was or how to underwrite student loans. It was because I knew sales and they knew the market. And I had a lot of experience that I brought to the table, but that was a long journey to learn. And at any rate, I, you know, did so well there and then the world changed. I got laid off for the first time in my career. And I was fortunate enough to have a nice package and I found out that the one thing in my career that I excel at, is fully funded unemployment. I crushed it every day getting paid to do nothing. I mean, I was so good. And for the first three months, I did It was it was wonderful, I played a lot of Call of Duty, I had a great setup. I just for one, once in my life, I was good at a video game and but I practiced. So it was a really weird journey. And then I kind of tried to dip my toes in doing something on my own, but I didn't and jump back into another company and work there for several years and spun off a division and had kind of ran my own business for the first time, which was great, but a whole different set, you know, of 70 people whose lives depended on me making the right decisions and, and grew that really well to the point where the parent company said, Hey, we're going to sell that to and by the way, they they don't need you. So you're off again. And there it was, again, with another kind of a severance package, which I was fortunate to have that without a doubt. And, but at that point, I was like, Well, I don't think I can spend three months playing Call of Duty again, I should probably figure something out. And I realized I loved helping people grow on my team. You know, I my last business was a call center business. And we had just a gamut of people. And I loved hearing about their journey. And I loved helping them see what they could actually become versus what was in their head of what they were. And helping people grow and doing that with the team and, and creating a vision. And so I had in the back of my head, I had a plan. Julie, I always have a plan. What happens when I plan are not the same thing most of the time, but I had a plan. And the plan was was going to take it three more years, I was going to start a side business coaching where it was safe, where I wouldn't have any risk because I would build it over time. And then they brought me into the room and said, Hey, Craig, we're selling the business in May, this was in February. So but you can't tell anybody. Because we're not allowed to talk about it till April. That's like great. annoying to them, I just finalized a divorce based on the assumption that I would still have this gig for three more years. So my entire world just kind of collapsed in on itself of everything I thought was ready to go forward. was not. And I was 51. Which is not exactly a springboard for, you know, finding new corporate jobs. It was it was, you know, just oh my gosh, what am I going to do? And I doubled down on the commitment to coaching and I just said, You know what, I'm going to start this business, I know I can do it, I wouldn't say I was that confident. But somewhere I said that. And off I went. And here I am two and a half years later, still grown a coaching business, enjoying the work. But dealing with all the anxieties of someone who had 30 years of corporate career with insurance and salary and all those things to now and people to do stuff for me. And now just me right, you know that you're on the same thing, right? You've got to have, you know, you're doing it all you so. So that's kind of the I don't know, what was that five minute version of the journey.

Juli Wenger:

So when you look at making that transition out of this, like 30 years of becoming something, right, because you said before, like I never expected to be what I am. And I know what I've seen in my own personal journey, and you can speak to this was, as I built up my 10 year business, I attached to this idea of this is who I am like my work defines me my work is part of my identity. And when I let it go, and stepped out, I mean, not only was it like exciting and also terrifying, but there was this tension around. Who am I without it? Who am I without the big paychecks? Who am I if I'm not providing for my family the same? Who am I? If I don't have a successful established business? How are people going to perceive me there's all of this stuff and all these stories wrapped around my perception of who I was. And I had to unlearn and disconnect from a lot of that. I'm curious about what were the things that you had to disconnect from or still maybe disconnecting from, of who you thought you were and where you found, you know, your identity and where you are now.

Unknown:

Yeah, well, I'm 100% self actualized. So none of that was an issue, as it turned out, so No, I'm kidding. That was none of it. It was I would say, so, you know, for you go back. And some of this is my own internal myth, I think too, but I was, you know, this pretty nerdy, shy kid with potential. But, you know, I was, I was never the one who wanted to jump out ahead. You know, if someone else wanted to lead, I was always like, go for it. I was shy. I was you know, I didn't know what I was going to be. And then I as I said, I kind of stumbled into this career, where I was making ridiculous amounts of money. I mean, just crazy amounts of money. And that became how I defined my worth was right. You know, who am I? I'm the guy who goes out and make lots of money and makes lots of money. I support my kids, you know. And so that was a tremendous amount of my self worth was that I'm the person who does this right, I'd outperformed my father. Right, I did what he couldn't do, I found a way, you know, and that's a whole separate story. But I found a way to be successful in my corporate career and stick with it for 2530 years, right. And so that was my whole identity was so wrapped up in that, you know, on the notes, you know, and I still had kind of the nerd identity, but like, I was a nerdy, geeky guy with cash. So, you know, I would buy, I mean, I've got like, 60,000 comic books that I bought over the years, right. So money was not a problem. And but at the same time, money was a problem. Because I was always worried my whole anxiety was, I had this identity wrapped around, you know, I'm the guy who makes money. But on the other side of it was, I was afraid it was all going to go away, that at the drop of a hammer, and this gets back to the imposter syndrome to is with the constant knowing that I don't deserve to make this. There's no way you know, I can't believe I've buffaloed these people for so long that they actually think I'm worth all this money. And someday, it's going to sit in a meeting, they're going to be like, Who is this guy, and that was going to be the end of it. And, you know, that was, so it was great to have, but it was a lot to lose. So the first time I got laid off, it was like, you know, at first I had to deal with we'd gone through this weird kind of environment of regulatory and corporate things where we built I brought in a group of 70 people, we built that team to like several 100, and then tore it all down all over the course of eight years. So before I got that first severance, I'd laid off like 150 people myself, so I kind of was dealing with the grieving of that initially. And, you know, so I wasn't really thinking about what it meant for me. But then once it happened, I was like, Alright, well, what I got to do, how am I going to go out and make all this money, I've got this lifestyle built around this money. And, you know, when I was a kid, my dad changed jobs a lot. And so I had vowed to myself, I was never going to disrupt my kids lives, I was never going to move, I was never going to make a move halfway across the country, I was going to keep them in the same school, I was going to do all the things that I felt like were unfairly done to me. So I had a commitment. I had private school tuition, I had all these things. And so it was all just, you know, it all just kind of broke down right there. I was like, Okay, well, suddenly, you know, maybe they didn't find me out. But it's all gone. Now. What am I going to do? Unfortunately, you know, I got another role where I was, you know, I wasn't doing what I was doing, financially, but I was doing well. And I could kind of continue on that journey. And then it all kind of fell apart again, you know, when they sold the business, you know, I won, I guess, you know, I built a great business, and then we sold it. So there I was, again, and it was but it was a little different this time because of the divorce because my kids were in college and almost on the other side of it. So suddenly, all those things I had to cover were gone. Or were diminished, you know, so. So it was a different construct in my head, it's like, Okay, well, wait a minute, I don't necessarily have to do all that. I've spent 2530 years trying to make a whole lot of people happy. And make sure a lot of people's needs were met. And now I don't have to do that anymore. And I you know, after they told me that I'd already planned a 10 day vacation because I'm what was coming out of the divorce. And I was like, Alright, I'm gonna go vacation for 10 days. And then I was gonna live like a king for three more years. But suddenly, that changed. So that was where I kind of had this 10 days sitting on a beach in Florida with nothing to do for the most part, and it was just kind of starting to process, or what am I going to do now that I don't have all these? What does my life have to be? Do I have to make all that money anymore? It's nice. I mean, look, lots of money's great. Yeah, lots of money is a plus, you can you know, it doesn't make you happy. But it makes things really easy. But now it's like, well, do I need all that to do what I'm going to do? And that's been kind of I would say the journey of the three years is now it's about, you know, do I want to be in, you know, what kind of relationships do I want to have? What kind of life Do I want to have? And what do I need to do to to get there? And that's been kind of the transformation this time around was, alright, what do I need to do just to have the lifestyle I want, versus making lots of money but not sleeping at night and stressed out all the time and all those things and not controlling my destiny as much as I thought so that's been kind of the journey and I wouldn't say I'm done with it. But that's been the journey over the last couple of years.

Juli Wenger:

There's something so important there. about, you know, Money makes things easy, but it doesn't make you happy. Right? Like we can we can chase it, and build for it and then have it. And it's like, this is it. You know, that's all there is. And that was people who have listened the podcast, they know, that's my journey, right? It's the great, I have a half million dollar company, but I'm miserable. absolutely miserable and anxious and stressed out and just like, you know, everything is tension. And on the other side of that jump, there is this does desire Yes, to have stability and to have the comfortable lifestyle? and things that we've become accustomed to. But there also isn't a, like a primary money motivation. It's more about what's the impact? Now, what is it that we're creating in the world? And so I'm curious about for you, as you're building out this new lifestyle and getting this clarity and like, what an amazing opportunity, right to just totally reboot and say, like, hey, what is it that's important to me? What's a priority? When you think about the bigger picture impact? What do you what would you say is driving you now?

Unknown:

That's a good question. Probably one I don't have a great answer for I, I think what's driving me now is trying to figure out what I want to feel good about, you know, and I know I want to make a difference, and I want to help people. And, and I especially want to help people who were me, right? There's a whole lot of people out there who are dealing with the imposter syndrome, there's a whole lot of people out there who are stressed out because they're on, they're on a wheel, you know, thinking they're going somewhere that they want to be, you know, there's this old George Carlin bit where he has on one of his records where it's like, he's talking about people going to Oregon, the Oregon Trail and dealing with pestilence, and death and suffering, only need to go to get to Oregon and find out they don't like it there. And that's right, that's like to go through all this journey to go through all this and then find, then you're there. And you're like, Huh, well, this isn't what I thought it would be. So you know, there, it's always hard to kind of go back retrospectively and say, Oh, if I changed my life, it would be different, but what I be where I am now. But how do you manage it better? So how do I help people manage it? So that you know if it's if they're in that corporate world? How do I help them deal with the the imposter syndrome? How do I help them deal with, you know, being, you know, the person who doesn't want to have challenging conversations with people who are who know how to step up and stay strong when they need to stay strong? Those are the kinds of things where I'd like to help people and just help people find the way I you know, I find myself working in kind of Two Worlds. It's one kind of the corporate executive side writer who were me who are dealing with that. But then also kind of the small business owner side who were people were like, hey, I've got this great idea. And it is a great idea. And it grows. But now they're like, Hey, I don't know what to do. Now. I got 1520 people, how do I manage this? Right? So I helped with those two. So I think it's ice when I spent a lot of time thinking about my business name. And my business name is clear path coaching and consulting. And it's that clear path forward. And I think that's where I want to help is help people see the clear path of twines and twists. But at least as far as you can see, it looks pretty clear. And then we'll deal with when we turn the corner, and there's lava or trees, or whatever it is. But you know, it's it's trying to see that clear path forward. Because you have to know yourself, and it's hard to know yourself. And you have to know, what am I doing all this for? And if you're just doing it all for the money, I mean, that's fine. You know, but that's not going to keep you going as much as you would like to think it would keep you going. So so I think for me, what drives me is trying to figure out still, what, what is good enough for me on the personal side. And then the other side is, if I can help somebody if I can help them be 10% better or feel 10% better. That's a pretty good change, right? 10% better is actually better than you might think. Right? So that's kind of where where can I help people kind of ease that? Whatever it is in the professional setting. All right, where do I want to be? Let's get clear on we weren't B and then let's figure out how we're going to get there. And I think that kind of clarity is just that's the thing is just get comfortable with where you're at and then figure out Alright, we're not going to figure out where we're gonna be in 10 years. let's worry about 10 months or 12 months. You just can't plan that far into the future. It's just hard.

Juli Wenger:

There's just peace around like knowing where we are now. Right because often, we don't even have a sense of that, you know, I see that show up sometimes with business clients where you know, what is the Look like what are the? What are the numbers? What are the goals? What are the targets? What are the things are working towards? Like, where are you now? Right, and then figuring out, you know, is the path forward yours or someone else's? Yeah. Because so often we're on autopilot. It's us bought into someone else's story or someone else's path of what it's supposed to look like, where are we supposed to go to? And I mean, all of North American culture is built around that. Yeah, this is what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to climb the ladder? Yeah, you're supposed to make lots of money, you're supposed to aim for exactly the life that you had. And it's not for everyone. It's not everyone's path. But we attached to it, and then we go build it. And then what, you know,

Unknown:

yeah, I used to kind of look, there's so much there, I could unpack. But I think I would sit in these different companies I was in and I would see the people who were just like, you know, they didn't really have the ambition password. They were, you know, it was a comfortable, right. And I think there's some number it used to be 75,000. I'm sure it's higher now that, you know, money doesn't make any happier. Right, you know, you can get enough covered with this dollar and, and they would kind of get there, whatever that number was in their life. And they just didn't have any ambition beyond it. They came in, they showed up on time, they worked hard all day, and then they left. And I could never understand it. I'm like, how can you be happy with just that? Don't you want to make more? Don't you want to have more responsibility? Don't you want more external validation that you're worth it? And although I didn't have that part, quite sussed out in my head, but that was the gist. And that was, I just would look at those people. I'm like, how are you there? And how are you comfortable with this? And I did just it was like looking at an alien. And I, you know, I couldn't quite figure it out. But my dad defined it early on, you know, I was going to be a American Studies major and teach social studies. And he was like, PE teachers, football coaches, teach social studies, you're going to teach something real. If you're going to be a college, I don't think that was his tone of voice, but it is in my as I layer through psychologically, I hope they listen to this, that'll be great. So I switched, I became an English major, I did not enjoy being an English major. But it was that was the defining thing, right? I'm going to do that. And then later it was defined by, well, I'm going to have these kids and this wife and I'm going to build this thing. And so now that has to be that it wasn't necessarily what I wanted. It was what I felt I had to do to have

Juli Wenger:

this construct all tied into that way.

Unknown:

Yeah, yeah, this is what I must do. And so yeah, I think it was it was less about, you know, what do I want, and then you kind of take the money and you buy all the things. So it feels okay. Right? That's the nice part about the money is you can buy all the things and make yourself feel like you are doing well. Except you just have all the things and you're not happy. So,

Juli Wenger:

so it's like a distraction?

Unknown:

Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's, it is, but I mean, you know, it's still out there. Like, I kind of sit there and think, you know, if somebody came to me and said, Hey, Craig, we want you to come back, and we're going to pay all this. And you can have all the stress, and you can have all the hours and you can have all the things. I don't know what I'd say. somebody out there who's listening offer me that and let's see what I say.

Juli Wenger:

Let's just test it. We put it out in the universe now, you know? Yeah, exactly. What should happen tomorrow? Well, I mean, here's, here's my curiosity. Next, and it's stuff I'm always thinking about this is my wheelhouse is, you know, who are you? What are you on this earth for? Right, it's the, the purpose piece of that bigger picture where, you know, you're talking about that and saying, like, I really like helping people look at what they could come versus what it is in their head that they are. And, you know, how that specifically moves its way down into how do they show up in their business? How do they show up as leaders? How do they show up as you know, building out those things, but then there's this other layer of we, I think foundationally we have to have some context on know, who am I that then we can evaluate from those opportunities through. That's kind of like, an essence level, not as a job title or roles. Like it's not, okay, I'm, you know, I'm Craig and I'm a coach, and I'm a former executive, and I'm a dad, and that's who I am. It's like, when all that goes away. What's left, which is kind of existential, but it's like,

Unknown:

yeah, I yeah, I've gone through a lot of therapy. I, you know, and, and I still don't know if I can answer that question, right? Because I've even seen with starting this business, that I've fallen into the trap a few times already say, Well, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna build this big thing and I'm gonna have all this People working. I'm like, wait, I don't try to I want that. Is that what I want? Or do I just think that's what I should be doing? You know, somebody, you know, in the group that we're both a part of, you know, he said to me said, What is it you want to build? What's the lifestyle you want? And I'm still trying to figure out how to answer that question. You know, it's been like, a month, I hated that question. Because man, it's just a hard question to answer is, what is just enough, that's gonna put you at a place where you feel good about yourself, where you're both living the life you want, making a contribution. And, you know, moving things forward, you know, because you still think about what's the legacy? Right, you've got kids, I've got kids, you know, you want them to think, you know, that there's something there. So, so I don't know, it's it's hard to figure out those that big question. And I think it's almost also a slice of life where you are. So I think that question, the answer that question changes over time, what that answer was, maybe when I was on my 20s, not that I found it, but it's probably very different than where I am now, after what I've been through. Does that make sense?

Juli Wenger:

Yeah, and I think there's pieces of us that transcend young pieces of our innate wiring, or skill sets or talents are, are being put on the earth with purpose, right? Like, what is it that that holds through time? Like caring about people, or some of our personalities, traits, our core character structure, some of that kind of stuff? Because I know I've seen I've seen in the journey both with myself and other people, and we start to get that clarity to say like, so this is how existential like, my Who am I is I'm Lovejoy strength, light and grace. Like that's it. That's who Julia is. And and then what's fun about that? Is it filters down into? How does that mean, I show up? And what spaces does that mean, I show up in and how can I use that as an evaluation of what are the opportunities that are coming? And how do I run this business? What do I say yes to you? And what do I say no to? And it's so often gives us all this insight into him? What's my purpose? Because it's so connected to how are we wired? I could go on about that stuff for hours. And I have and you know, people who listen to us regularly, it'll be like, yeah, yeah, we know. But you know, where I get curious, when I'm listening these stories, it's like, Hey, what's the essence? Like, what's at the core? of Craig, of who Craig is? And then that gives us so much insight into what is Craig called to? And then all those decisions start to get easier?

Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I don't know, even for me that I've quite figured it out. You know, I will say that, you know, I know what some of the negative things that carry through with me no matter what are right, the anxiety, the worry, the, you know, money. You know, though, all those things, those are there, whatever I, you know, when I had a lot when I have what I have. So I think that's kind of what's carried through but you know, I think on the other side of it, what's carried through for me is things like a sense of fairness and justice, right, in the in the way decisions are made, and consistency of mind are things that are important to me, hypocrisy, even though I'm sure I have more than my share of hypocritical acts on a daily basis, bugs me to no end, right. That's the you know, so those are some of the things and then you know, just helping where you can. And again, I think it's an important value, but it's always that, like, you drive by and you see the car broken down, you know, what is helping look like? Or the person looking for money on the street is helping giving them money or not giving them money? I don't know. But how do we help. And so, you know, I think that's part of it. So I've tried to kind of flow that helping into, you know, this idea of helping people on their journey, you know, serving and certain things that I think are important to serve on. Those are the things that I think are consistently through, but if I really had this great, you know, focus in on a purpose statement, I just think it's, I've had a hard time really nailing in on it, you know, I'm just trying to do enough to feel good, you know, that, you know, that I'm making a contribution. And so, but it's funny how it all changes, right? So, you know, I said I was in the student loan world, you know, when I was doing all that, and I did it for a long time before they were like the worst things in the world for everybody. But, you know, I really, I was like, Look, I'm helping people pay for college. I felt like I did a good and noble job. And then I found out You know, that externally was defined as No, you know, you're the most evil, capitalist corrupt people in the world, and you can't do what you do. And so it was really a weird scenario, to think you know, where you're externally defined, you think what you're doing is helpful. And then you find out the whole world thinks it's not. It's like, Oh, no. So, yeah, so it's all just really, it's that external internal piece of where you're kind of where you drive some of that from it's, it's that external internal piece is just a hard piece, where am I getting my validation from? Really, I mean, it's that you can say you're totally internally validated. And, but that's hard. I don't know, I don't know anyone who takes a lot of work. It does

Juli Wenger:

a lot of growth. And I think, like, we're not wired to do life so low, we're, you know, we are wired to care about, to some extent, what other people think and how we fit into, you know, the social order of things. And at the same time, like one of the things you said, that landed for me, it was not just want to, like do enough to, you know, to be good to be doing something that matters. And that really ties back to that question that you got to ask them what's enough. Right? What is enough look like? And I don't know if for high achiever types like us. If there's such thing as enough, there's always like something to reach for and other levels, like, what are we reaching for? intentionally? You know, what's the, what's the goalposts? So we're not getting dragged off into someone else's success measure. And the other thing I was thinking about, as I'm listening to you talk about the things that have carried through over time are things like justice and integrity and contribution and generosity and impact. And it's like, it's that kind of stuff. That becomes the kind of the anchor or the grounding of, you know, what's it? What's at the core of me? Right? And, I mean, that's a personal journey. That's not like Julie said, This is who I am. So it's who I am. Because it's not and it's not ever limited to that. It's such a fun exercise to go through with people of like, coming up with these core anchoring statements. And it's powerful, but they're like, but what about all these other things like, well, you're all of those two, you just need a reminder, because so often, we just forget who the fuck we are. Yeah, that one and for you. Yeah. Thank you, Craig. Thank you. Let's right there.

Unknown:

That's my love languages, sailor level cursing. I, that was funny. You said it made me think, you know, you take all these assessments, right to tell you who you are. And I'm sure they're all very scientific and everything. But it's like part of it is like, if I'm choosing between these two words, sometimes I think, well, that's what I think I am. But I would love to have people who know me, well take those tests who've observed me and seen me. So I'm not fooling myself, or am I right? And is this really me when I take it? Or is this my kind of filtered version of who I think I am? And I know there's a lot of science behind them. That should be filtering some of that out, but I don't trust. So I would always be interested to see what that looks like.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah, I think a lot of I can't speak to all tests, but from even enneagram space where I'm a total nerd, the even the really good quality tests are only accurate, like 80 85% of the time, and it depends so heavily on people's level of self awareness. And a lot of them are challenging because they really focus on more behavioral things, then they focus on the underlying drivers. So they're an interesting data point. They give us somewhere to start, they give us something to get curious about. And I mean, personally, I find a tool like the enneagram, because it's not like here's your box. And here's your checklist of all the things you are and off you go. You know, like some of the other tests, it's more of a roadmap to go back to yourself to say like, what are the things that take you out? What are the things that I like to use this language? You'll appreciate this? What's your superpower? What's your kryptonite? Yeah, right? What are the things that are your self protective patterns or defense mechanisms, your triggers, the things you're trying to avoid? Like, that's all the kryptonite stuff? And then what's your superpowers? What are you wired for? What are you inherently good at. And it's very much a law of polarity thing, because often the things that we're very good at are also the things that take us out, if we over commit to them, or over attach to them or place your identity in them. And so it just gives us this acceleration of our own awareness and our own journey. And at the same time, it's like, often I think people take this stuff to surface, and then it becomes a permission slip to show up the way they're showing up or it becomes a permission slip for poor behavior choices are like, Oh, well, I'm just this so take it or leave it. That's not the intention and also from a When you're looking at Okay, this is who I think I am. But am I fooling me? When we're latching on to that identity piece of Who are we? I think it's really about who are we, when we're at our best? Not how are we showing up every day? But who are we when we are our most authentic selves when we're the most in our power when we're the most centered and grounded, and focusing on that, because that's really the target, right is to be more of that more of the time. And to remind ourselves of like, this is who I am, because I'm not like, strength all the time. And I'm not great all the time. Ask my children. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, it's not 100% of the time, sometimes it's not even 70% of the time. But when I can remind myself like, this is who I am, um, take a breath and take a minute. It's like, Oh, yeah. Okay, so how does that require me to show up in this moment that I'm not?

Unknown:

Yeah, and I'm not an enneagram junkie. And he agram however you say it, I use one called the core values index. And there's like four factors in it, right. And, but the idea of it is, it's, you know, your core energy, right. So your either your core energy is, and I don't always like the language in it, but it's very valid is like love not not romantic love, but like, love and vision. And then you have the innovator who's, you know, constantly coming up with ideas. And you have your banker, which is about data and resource and builder, which is just going and you have the ones you are and your strongest 10. But sometimes that doesn't work for you. And you have to recognize when your innate nature isn't working for you, you have a choice, you can either go to the dark side of that energy, or you can say, I need to shift, I need to think where can I tap into my builder? Here? Are my banker here? Where's that going to serve me better? And that's kind of that self awareness piece. And it's hard to bat 1000 on it, right? It's like you said, you know, probably your kids see the more real you than anybody else ever sees. So, as beautiful and ugly as that probably is on a daily basis. And I'm sure, my bet was always, what is the first thing that I did to the boys that's going to come out in therapy in their 30s. That, to me, is what you know, is where you've really crushed it. But it's, you know, I think they see the real you in many ways, but that's what I like about about some of the assessments like this, where it talks about not so much the kind of things you do, but we're the drivers are for who you do. So you can recognize, hey, I'm using this. And, and I'm losing. I have to change the way I'm doing it. Or at least ideally, right? So but yeah, they can become a crutch like, Oh, no, you know, I'm a, I'm a this, so I can't do those things. I don't know about that.

Juli Wenger:

Yeah, it's the over attachment. I mean, you've seen that in my people pleasing. This shows up, when we're on coaching calls together. And I'm talking about like, my calendars over full, or I'm saying yes to things I don't want to say yes to. And that's the over attachment to this underlying driver of needing to be needed needing to be helpful. Yeah, is like when I'm needed, and I'm helpful, I have a connection from like, way back, then I get love, then I'm enough, then I'm accepted, then, you know, I get my needs met. And my core needs are different than other types, core needs. And also like being helpful, is really connected to my superpowers. When I look at being a coach, being able to hold space for people and nurture people and really care about people deeply and like feel our feelings. And all of the things that are connected to my type structure are superpowers, but when I overdo it, I take myself out, and then I want nothing left to give. Yeah, so there's a lot of insight that's come from those kinds of tools. And that kind of self study and self awareness that really allows for, okay, this is this pattern showing up again. So I mean, step one, have compassion for myself. And step two, like choose something else, because I can see it. So there's something to be sad, I think with with a lot of tools, there's a ton of really valuable assessments, and some of them are more accessible than others. Like it's one thing I do, say about enneagram specifically, it's a little less accessible because there's so many layers and it goes so deep. Yeah, and that can be both a blessing and a curse. But just getting that insight into Oh yeah, this is how I show up or this is how I'm wired or this is I mean, I've done like disc and Colby and bti and, like basic human needs, love languages, all of that and it all nests together. Because human psychology is human psychology. Yeah. So you know, they all have value and they all have all I mean, there's some that are just garbage but most of them most of the mainstream stuff. Yeah. As the value and we can choose how we leverage them, so,

Unknown:

yeah, absolutely. It's Yeah, it's in. It's funny you say that like, because I think about, like the challenges of my, my two assessment types, from the assessments I've taken and, you know, the the challenge for me as a coach is, you know, I have that kind of want to be like a bit too, which makes me really good on the empathic side of trying to understand what's going on. But even in my corporate career, what it makes me bad at is the accountability side. But that awareness that, you know, I can do it. But I have to be aware of it, and I have to commit energy to it. And that's, you know, that's where I think some of these things really help you is to say, Alright, this is where my tendencies are, I need to be aware of that. And I need to know what I need to shift so I can take on that accountability piece, but I always have to kind of have it in the back of my head to remember that's who I need to be. So it's really interesting,

Juli Wenger:

beautiful. Thanks so much for doing this with us today.

Unknown:

This was great. Thank you for the opportunity. It's great to get a chance to talk to all your folks out there. All your listeners.

Juli Wenger:

Hopefully it was helpful. Oh, Craig. Yeah. We'll drop some links in the show notes. Cool. Check out what he's up to. And until next time, know that you can conquer your imposter syndrome. And imposter syndrome is really an invitation arrives. Exactly. Any last thoughts when we wrap up? Oh, wow.

Unknown:

No, there's so much that we covered it was great. I think it's really, you know, my thing is just take the time to get to know yourself and really understand the journey you want to be on and why. And that I think is the biggest piece