Join me as we continue this conversation about PILLARS! Love, joy, strength... and all things kindness and fierceness. Cause running a business is no joke! We're diving back into this conversation with author Jason Davis!
Jason helps Christian business owners fortify all their tomorrows, so they can live in the purpose God has called them to.
Jason is a husband, author, speaker, teacher, encourager, and Stewardship Coach. By the leading of the Holy Spirit, he founded Jericho Force Enterprises in Fall 2017. Jericho Force helps business owners grow so they can reach their full potential in 3 primary areas: business growth, personal growth, and spiritual growth.
Jason has helped lead people out of over $310,000 of debt and set aside upwards of $100,000 in savings. His impact extends to the organizational level, having trained over 1000 individuals (and counting) on the concepts of leadership development and teamwork.
Jason is a John Maxwell Certified Trainer and Coach, a DISCflex Certified Coach, a graduate of Dave Ramsey’s Financial Coach Master Training, and a Kanban Management Professional.
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
Book - Fortify: Being Rooted in God's Plan for Work and Business
Clubhouse - @jaynayday
Insta - @jason.n.davis
Website - https://www.jerichoforce.com
CONNECT WITH ME
Instagram | Clubhouse | Facebook: @juliwenger
Welcome to the becoming ourselves podcast where we believe that you were created on purpose with purpose and for a purpose. I'm Juli Wenger, an empowerment and identity coach and enneagram two committed to helping you step out of overwhelm perfectionism and self sabotage, listening to learn how to take back your power, uncover the stories and patterns that keep you small, and lean in to living your most powerful, purposeful and passionate life. Let's dive in. I am so excited for us to be circling back to finish off this conversation with Jason Davis. We are going to be talking about all things kindness and niceness and fierceness and patience. And it built me and it inspired me. And it's going to do the same for you. Let's go. It's so true though. Like if I'm not in a patient space, if I'm feeling frustrated with how long things are taking, and I mean, people who listen to this podcast on the regular know that I am a recovering overachiever. So I want everything warp speed like I am warp eight. That's Julie like Star Trek references, you know, engage. Right? We sit around and watch old Star Trek for fun because I just I love it. It's brainless. But we're working our way through all the old series. But I'm like, let's go right now Faster, faster, faster, faster, faster. And that's part of the you know, the achiever wing that I lean into super heavily in my enneagram typing. But it's also this over attachment to I need to prove my enoughness I need to prove that I'm valuable, I need to prove that I needed I need to prove that I'm worthy, you need to prove that I'm lovable. And as a two, it's this I am helpful, I am needed. That's this really strong over identification of self. And it's not actually who I am. But it's how my life has run until I got the awareness around, it could start to shift those behaviors. And yet, it's still very core. So there is this recovering piece of saying came aware of it and I'm working on it. But I'm not quote unquote there yet. I don't think there is actually a there, I don't think we ever get there. And at the same time, it's this push, push, push Drive, drive, drive, run, run, run. And then I get frustrated, because my timing and my plan might be different than God's timing, God's plan. And so things aren't panning out as quickly as I think they're going to. And then my kids are being a pain in the butt. Because that's what three and seven year olds, you know, who are fiery and have a strong willed set of parents because they get it from both sides are like, and then I'm like, Ah, you know, okay, hold on. That's not what love is. Right? That's not aligned with who I am. So it's really been working on. I think I'd read it to you before when we've been on but this thing that I got this word that I got wait patiently my daughter from doing things in you and building you for things you don't yet see. And I have to circle back to that like, Okay, this is not about my timing, this is not about my attachment to outcomes. This is about me showing up and being love, joy, strength, light and grace. That's it just circle back to that ground back to that lean back into that. And when I can do that, guess what? A whole lot more patient,Unknown:
patient people are reasonable people. When we are when we fall into being impatient, we are we're not reasonable anymore. And that's a very strategic word choice. Because when you're reason, audible reason able, you can make better decisions. You're a better listener. And people want to be around people that are reasonable, right? There's a lot of unreasonableness going on in this world for many, many different reasons. So it's refreshing to talk to someone who can understand and be with you in the moment and not be so focused on Yeah, Joe, it's great. It's time for me to go on to that. Or you know what, let me prepare for what I'm going to say next, and just completely ignore what you're gonna say because I want to make my point because my point is the most important thing in the room because it's all about me know, it's about serving others and listening, ladies and gentlemen, listening, believe it or not, serves other people, it means that they mean something to you because people don't care what you know, until they know that you care. One of the ways you can demonstrate that is listening. Now, you know we've all heard that funny joke, Julie we have twice as many years as we do a mouth is the reason I'm sure for that anatomy, right? So We've got to be great listeners. Because listening begets things like, empathy, focus, which brings clarity, which means me as a husband when my wife is telling me something, I'm not just prepared to response or I'm not tuning out, it's like, oh, okay, honey, I didn't realize like, wow, I just learned something we just grew together. not okay. Yeah. Are you finished? I'm ready to make my point is like, No, no, that's not howJuli Wenger:
well and then compassion shows up, right. And grace shows up. And connection shows up, because we're also wired for connection. But we get in our own way on that, because we're so stuck in that ego space. And I think the other thing I hear because I'm always tying together like enneagram, and psychology and all of these pieces is reasonable is when we are in the neutral to healthy range of space, when we're unreasonable. We're starting to lean into that limbic brain fight flight, freeze scarcity, fear, space, and our ability, or you know, neurobiological ability to be reasonable starts to dissipate, and we start to get triggered a whole lot more easily. So it's this constant awareness of where am i right now in the spectrum of sometimes we talk about unhealthy average and healthy in enneagram literature, right? Or it's like, hey, am I in the unhealthy space right now? Am I trending more towards average? Or I like to call it neutral? Like, how do we get back to neutral? And then how do I work my way towards a more healthy or empowered space when we are spending more time because it's not like we're never going to get triggered? Or we're never going to end up in that unhealthy space. But it's how do we spend more time in that healthy empowered space? What helps us get there? How do we build the toolkit? How are we continually growing, and these the fruits of the spirit and the principles and all the things we're talking about support us spending more time there, they build a foundation for us to continue to spend more time there.Unknown:
See, folks, this is why people love coach Julie. This is why she's Be Loved because of her ability to tie concepts together. I love it. Love. Thank you. I want two quick things. Julie, as you were talking, self consciousness, and self awareness, self conscious, this is what's going on with me. Self Awareness is what's going on in me. Let me explain self consciousness. You and I are talking. But then there's something going on in the room or I realize on camera Oh my god, do I have like a thing on the side of my like, that's self conscious. Self Awareness is what koju is getting that like all you know what I'm feeling a little triggered. And I'm starting to drift into, at self awareness. I just wanted to tease apart the difference that you know, you're you consciously Hey, Julie, there's a little there's really not anything on your eyebrows, by the way. And she's like, Jason, I know, because I checked.Juli Wenger:
I know, because I'm a to two I'm very image conscious, right? It's perception management. And that's something I get to be self aware about. See how I pull those together? Because then it's like, Okay, how much am I looking at my own image? gauging How am I perceived when I'm on zoom, or, you know, whatever platform you're on. And I mean, I'm learning to turn off myself view, because it's so innately wired. And I know that a lot of my significance, which is one of my core drivers who look at six basic human needs, has been over time wrapped up in how it look, and I've been learning to unravel that and show up, less, you know, polished, let's less put together less makeup less, you know, my eyebrows are done, whatever. Like all those little things that I used to judge So, so heavily. They don't matter as much anymore because I've been able to rewrite some of those rules. But that's kind of a whole nother thread of Congress. Well, you know, we'll circle back we'll have like a whole series of Jason and Julie episode. Yes. How about that? Yeah. Okay, so we get to patients, what else?Unknown:
Once your patient it so it's funny, you love yourself, you understand what it means to be loved, you love other people. And that puts you in this resilient state of joy. And then you have this inward peace which produces peace with your environment or circumstance. And then you develop that patience that reasonableness but that envy because of that, now you're this Just ultra kind person, there's this this just kindness you know those people, Juli, where it's just mean that person is just so kind. They have a kind spirit. It's not just a lot of times we like oh, well they're just nice. It's like no, this is like, beyond there's those people where you just want to like pinch their cheeks because they're just so the kindness is inside out again. And seriously, I've met some people it's like, man, I just love this lady, or this dude is just awesome. Isn't inches and and that comes that emanates from the end side, the kindness, because again, he's build on one another, somebody who's reasonable somebody who's loving somebody who's in a state of peace with themselves and their circumstance. Somebody who has this joyful resilience that produces kindness like yeah, so that's that's those building blocks. Right there. A lot of times we do that, you know, kindness. It's it's one of those. Okay, be kind it makes you think of the old. I don't know if you remember blockbuster, Julie?Juli Wenger:
Yeah. Oh, I used to work at what was it Rogers video? Like, yeah,Unknown:
yeah. Mr. Rogers, hollywood the same age. Be kind and rewind. It's like, right. Oh, it's like we poke fun. At kindness. Know kindness is powerful. Because now if you think about a plant right underneath the soil, there's the strong, powerful roots of love, joy, peace and patience. So now when that bush when that tree sprouts, kindness galore, and you're wondering, golly, they're just so there's something about them, they just, they're unflappable, they're kind, they see the best in people. They don't see the worse than people, they see the potential. And people. They're multipliers, not diminishers. And you just, it's like, wow, because of the work that happened below the surface. And that's why when you when you get to experience a level of kindness from somebody like that, that's why it makes you feel the way you do and I can almost bring you to tears or make yourself reflect like, Man, I wish I was like that. And the thing is, you can be you've just got to do the continual daily work, like all of us have to, you know, none of us are exempt. None of us are immune. I mean, Julie, I can recall a time you know, for me, the things I've been through, I was angry after my parents divorce, I divorced my sophomore year in college, and I was so angry, you couldn't see it on the outside, but I was. So I was like, Okay, I've got to and I'm combining concepts here with my five, I've got to be the best because I can't make mistakes, because I have a fear. And that's one thing that that is a motivator for fives as you can fall like this fear of something. My fear was the fear of repeatability, the fear of repeating the same mistakes. So instead of fighting from a place of victory, I was fighting from a place of shame. And it made me angry. And so I had to work through that I had to do the daily work. And now because I get I tell that story, Joe, you were angry. I was man. I was fuming. Because I had parents who taught me all these years about love and all these things.Juli Wenger:
And Greg says values misalignment value. How do I reconcile thisUnknown:
side? reconcile that, with how I looked at my parents, I had to reconcile that with myself. As far as like, wait, like, does this, what does this mean for me? And it was I had to deal with that. And so now because of doing that, that work? under the surface, I'm able to to display a level of kindness that is just that emanates, because oftentimes I get around people like man, Jason, I just like, Jason it's like, well, because I had to do some work. Number one, it's the grace of God, that that healed me And then secondly, you know, God does his part and that's provided being the grace provider. My part Okay, Jason, you you've got to work through that stuff. You've got to deal with it. You got to understand who you are. And so now i'm i'm beyond be kind and rewind Julie. I'm like, I'm like dishing out kind pies and cakes.Juli Wenger:
So here's I'm going to take us off track a little bit. Could I just have to circle around and like, touch on the you know, the goodness and the faithfulness and the gentleness and self control piece? But what strikes me as they're talking about kindness? Because I'm a two, so I'm a nurturer, right, I'm supposed to be plus, I'm a woman. So here's the society narratives of Be kind, and be soft, and be gentle and be like, demure almost right. And one of the things that's challenged this for me a little bit is I've been paying attention to Dr. Kristin Neff 's work on self compassion. And she just released this new book called fierce self compassion. And what's interesting about it is she talks about this blending of more of the typical nurturing type of self compassion that's like, I'm with myself, and I love myself and I can be kind to myself and be with my feelings and just offer ourselves compassion, which is a very soft, gentle, kindness themed form of self compassion. And then she also talks about fierce self compassion, which is where we get into action. And it's where we get into doing something, you know, for ourselves or for others, for our communities, etc. That is, like the example she uses. If you're in a burning building, it's not going to be compassionate for you to be like, Oh, I'm in a burning building. And this really sucks, and I'm having a moment of fear. And it because it teaches a self compassion break. And that's kind of the outline is like, I'm not the only one who's ever been in a burning building before, like a main emotion, I have common humanity, and I'm here for myself, that's not going to do it. Like you need to get out of the damn building, you need to act you need to do something you need to move. And I often think about it in terms of, you know, boundaries, right? That us being kind to others or to ourselves, as in being able to set clear boundaries enable to being able to make boundaries clear, or Bernie brown always says clear is kind, which initially, I was like, Why? Because I tend to like talk around things. And I've had this history of being too soft and too wordy and too flexible, and then I end up with no boundaries. And so I'm also a recovering boundaryless person. So there's been this piece of learning to embrace a fierceness within the kindness and a fierceness within compassion. We're kind of mixing kindness and compassion here. But I think they kind of like, integrate together really beautifully. And looking at from a faith perspective, we saw that we saw Jesus flip tables, we saw, you know, anger show up, we saw that more fierce peace show up in his personality. So I'm just curious to pick your brain a little bit before we wrap up for today on this softness, versus the fierceness.Unknown:
When you talk about that, hear people say a lot of times hear that that phrase, like random acts of kindness, well, it's interesting because people have a preconceived notion. with kindness. Some of it is societal, some of it is personal. And at the end of the day, I think two things are true about kindness, there's kind of the the N word, what's going on with you? And then there's the action part. And it's both because otherwise, you wouldn't have quotes and mantras developed about kindness is like no, if you ask 100 different people, you'll get 100 different answers, not on the theoretical aspect or like an ethereal aspect of kindness, you'll actually get people like, No, I've seen kindness. I've seen it. And what you're talking about Julie, with it with the fierceness is, we have to be careful about what we you know, imposing our own definition of kindness on things. So obviously as as followers of Christ, we begin with, okay, what is what is God's, his loving kindness should show forth in me and through me, that's number one. And the second aspect of that me being kind might mean me telling the truth to someone. Because the truth is what sets you free. Someone may need to hear something that they don't want to hear, don't like to hear. But you know, that when you say it, there's freedom in that. That's kindness. So, I think a lot of times we tend to miss appropriate the niceness aspect of kind and really kindness is being present in the moment with the person for what needed, and what's needed might be that nurturing aspect that might be what's needed. The other thing that might be needed is the Hey, we need to talk about the reality of the situation and the reality is X, Y, or Z, whether you want to hear that or not. That's kind now it's up to them. Well, let me step up. It's up to me with humble inquiry. Again, it's not what you say. It's how you say it. That's my responsibility, what they do with the information and how they take it. That's their responsibility. That's where we it comes back to stewardship. I've got to steward my words, because, you know, unfortunately, Julie, well, that's just how I say it. And now you're weaponizing. It's like, No, no, kindness doesn't weaponize kindness comes back to being in the moment. What is the other person need may not be what they want. But what does the person need? Everybody needs the truth told about where they stand circumstantially, or personally. So those are my, my thoughts, you started getting my brain going a little bit early I was.Juli Wenger:
Well, I mean, I find that and I've learned as I've been developing my coaching skills, and just going on my own growth path, our tone is often more important than the words we choose. Being able to approach with a tone of empathy, a tone of compassion, and tone of curiosity, will have much more impact than necessarily the words that we use. So, you know, when I'm, practically speaking, when I'm thinking about being in a coaching session, for example, and I see a theme coming up, I see a defeating pattern, I see something that might get people's walls up being kind is me calling that crap out. It's true. It's stating it, it's but I can approach it in a way that's unkind and brash and harsh, and, you know, just pushing buttons to push buttons. Or I can approach it in a way that's empathetic, and that they can read, you know, even my facial expressions, my body language, all of that. And it's like, Okay, I'm still safe here, feel safe in this moment, and then pick my words carefully to layer on top of that, and that allows us space where we could get to break through and ultimately then it is up to the client and how am I going to hold space for that? How am I going to receive that? Am I going to sit with it? Or am I going to allow myself to wall up. So as a very practical example, right, that shows up or talking about parenting, I got a seven year old, who is like seven going on 15 the emotionality is amazing, I swear to God, I'm raising a little too, like she is a mini me. That's just it's funny. I don't suggest types diapering our children, but it's just you know, the, the tone with her is, so make or break. It is mind boggling. And I'm married to an eight. So his tone is generally just more aggressive because that's how he's wired. So she's going to have to learn and build the skills and the resilience, you know, how to manage other people's tone and energy and he has to learn how to soften and be more cognizant of his tone for her which is also then me training him and interacting with him and him interacting with me and helping me learn like how do I cope because I'm wired? I think so much like her. And how do I handle his way of being in his way of communicating and his lens of the world and perception and all of that and how that's different from mine. There's some really cool growth opportunities that exist for us when you talk about self awareness and some of our patterns and things being for us in so many spaces of our life. All we have to do is look for them.Unknown:
Yeah, absolutely. As a husband, for sure. I'm a five right I'm an I'm an investigator, so I have to be careful like I can shotgun lis questions facts.Juli Wenger:
And known sometimes you'll be in kind of brash Yeah, and emotional and it's like not default thinking about how will this emotionally impact and other humans actually so there's, I'm right so here,Unknown:
the opportunity for me and that's where you know, a five when you start to drift unhealthy kind of reacts a little bit like the eight in terms of that brashness rooted a little differently because of the the the analytical, fact based nature. But I have to be careful and I have worn quite a bit and my five years of marriage about how that impacts my wife, like, I can be the one I'm shotgunning questions and then I may like in denoise, like I'm not trying to like, question down, but I just asked like, five questions. In 30 seconds, and I genuinely want to know, like, I feel threatened because you're asking me questions that I don't even know the answer to. I mean, it's like, oh, I was just asked, okay, let's slow down. Let's be with her in the moment. So, because what I've found with my wife is sometimes when we've had conversations, it's no honey, I don't, I don't know. And I feel like when you're asking me the question, it'll, it makes me feel small in the moment, or that I may not, you know, be able to meet the standard of what you're looking for, in terms of having the answer. So really wanna sit with that. And, again, listen first, and even the Bible talks about this be quick to listen, regardless of any gram disk, Hbi, whatever, be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger. And I've found so much more when I just listen. Because when my wife gets going, and then she can context which and I'll let her know, to that sort of thing. I'm like, honey, like we went from animals to like, the new pair of shoes that you're looking at to something that our parents just said, and I'm like, trying to. I'm like,Juli Wenger:
wait, I think because that sounds like me.Unknown:
Yeah. Now, no show. So we have different signals. My wife goes, Okay, I'm done with that story. I'm about to Ah, okay. I'm caught up now that the transition. So we both have learned because my wife, believe it or not, her version of shotgunning is I'm here. You're here, here. And I'm like, I was still on the shoes.Juli Wenger:
I'm in this linear track over here. And you're bouncing around like a loop de loop roller coaster. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's very interesting how different our brains work. And I mean, we could dive into that too. But the what I love about the enneagram as a tool, is it allows us so much insight into not only how are we wired, and accelerating our own growth, which is been massive, and I love to use it business for that. But how are the people around us that we care about wired now for us to understand inherently Okay, I have a need for certainty and to predict the future and to know what's going to happen and information and data and to avoid fear via all of that. Yeah. And she has a need for, you know, however, she is wired. And here's how our lenses of the world differ. And here's how our interactions with people differ. And here's what we need. And here's what we're scared of. And here's what we're avoiding. It gives us so much context and compassion and an ability to show up with more kindness.Unknown:
Absolutely. And as an example, that Julie, and the pandemic, granted, we've had a lot of stuff happen, personally, professionally. But even though I've talked about this, and yeah, there were moments, everybody got annoyed that their spouse or significant other at some point, regardless of Annie, Grandpa, but we were talking one day, and it's like, My God, we grew so much closer because of the space. And it wasn't just proximity as part of it. But we had some deep level conversations that were powerful. And if I'm honest, some of my favorite, and there's a pandemic going on, we'd be sitting and just talking for hours. And it's like, wow, honey, I didn't know that same for Wow, I didn't know that egg begin the space. So we were continuously having powerful conversations with what which led to growth, which allows, you know, not even just me, my wife to say, Wow, we really grew significantly closer, and a pandemic. And I understand that there there were people who didn't, and there were some relationship changes, I understand that it is just in using us as an example. We saw that and choosing again to your word, Julie, we chose to dig in, we chose the lean into it. And that's why we can say, you know, a year and a half later kind of starting to come out of it. And and you know, seeing people again, and now it's kind of a weird new like, Whoa, like, now I'm like doing stuff more and it's like, wow, we're not like right there. That'll be a whole again, life happens. But we'll continue to grow through that. And I just want people to feel encouraged that you know, you're not alone. And when you listen to podcasts like this and you're listening to coach Julie, people might like myself or others. me Oh, no one is exempt. We've all been through things. We all have to work things out. If you are a Christ follower, you've heard it this way. We have to work out our own salvation. Julie can't work out or husbands or husbands can't can't work out hers. I can't work out my wives. My wife can't work out mine. Now. We can do things together. But ultimately I have to choose to deal with what I deal with so that I can show up and be the greatest business owner. The greatest version of myself, the greatest husband, the greatest future Father, you know, that's what we mean by that is how do we show up daily. So I just want to encourage and build people up because that's what we need to encourage one another every day, as long as it's called today. And there is an opportunity. I know that the time of this recording, I'm looking at the eastern time at 1222. And I get this beyond demand and all that, but I just want you all don't miss an opportunity to encourage somebody, everybody, regardless of how they're wired, needs encouragement, coach, Julie, encourages me all that she doesn't know. That's why I tell her I'm like Julie, you know, if you ask that that's gonna send me into because it's so encouraging. Because she says again, she knows like, if I get started on something, I see her pin, I see her. So we're encouraging each other as we're doing this podcast. That's what we need. So wherever you're at whatever space you're in, whatever business you're in male or female, young or old, go encourage somebody. Go do that soul work daily, so you can be the best that you can be so you can show up and be present. The love the joy, the peace, patience and kindness. We'll get to the other stuff, I'm sure another time but yeah, Julie circle back. I was getting. I felt the fire here at the end. SoJuli Wenger:
I love the fire. That's one of my favorite things to watch for in our conversations. Like you get like jittery in your chair. And yeah, it's fine. Okay, so here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna give people a couple of quick. Here's how you can follow Jason things can get his book. Yeah, fortify on Amazon. We'll put a link in the show notes. I've got my copy on my desk. I may have sent one to a client last night. It's like you need to read this over the summer. It's really phenomenal. being rooted in God's plan for work in business. Check him out on clubhouse he hosts a room regularly. It's going to be on Mondays, fortify it has been such a blessing to me. So I hope you'll check him out there. Follow him on Instagram. Thanks for doing this with me today. Absolutely. It was so fun. I'm glad we finally could get it lined up. Get it recorded. Yeah, drop us some DMS and let us know what your takeaways are from this episode. So thanks so much for tuning in. And this is your loving reminder till next time that you are love, joy, strength, light and grace are always enough. Big Love and virtual hugs.